Would any of the program's graduates like to give us their feedback? Looking at the previous board postings it seems like some of llm-guide's members have been admitted but none has come back to us with their impression on the program's overall quality, academics, and value.

Is anyone here applying for the next cohort?

It is nice to see that someone has begun a discussion about this programme. I am a graduate of the UNICRI LLM and I shall explain the major points of this specific programme in some detail.

First, this programme will offer you something that most programmes cannot, both professional instructors (professors teaching at well respected institutions from several different continents) and lecturers that have real-life practical experience. As you can tell from the list of professionals that have taught in the previous editions, most institutions will not have lecturers that are visiting this programme. People like Judge Fausto Pocar (ICTY), George Fletcher, Paola Gaeta, Wolff Heintschel von Heinneg, William O'Neill, Judge Kimberly Prost (former ICTY ad-litem) , ICC OPCD Counsels Xavier-Jean Keita and Melinda Taylor and a plethora of other former professionals from the ICC, ICTY, ICTR and the SCSL taught in the most recent edition. You will be learning from the persons that are actually making the day-to-day decisions in IHL and HR law! This is something that no other programme can offer.

Second, this programme is intensive. It is a 12 month course that is taught in just over 8 months. You will be sitting in lectures from approximately 0900h to 1800h Monday - Thursday, but there are breaks scheduled throughout the day (about 2-2.5 hours). Fridays are half days. Time passes by quickly though. I find this an advantage over other programmes because you are only spending 6 months away from your nation of residence. The degree/diploma have legal valued and is issued from both the University of Turin and UNICRI. You cannot get a Master of Laws in such a short amount of time anywhere else.

Third, the possibility of internships afterward are there, you just have to work for it. UNICRI does have internship possibilities after you finish the programme (and UNICRI also brings in the UNV for other opportunities), but UNICRI will not "give" you anything. Your focus should be on creating business relationships with the lecturers, creating contacts and opening doors for yourself. With the people that will come and lecturer for the 2010-11 edition, if you walk away without any connection to future unpaid or paid employment, you only have yourself to blame! The professionals that lecturer are looking for bright people, and some will discuss future work related possibilities. You must grab those opportunities! Yes, it is a little work, but if you are serious about going into IHL or HR, this is a programme that you should give serious consideration to!

Fourth, look at the price. There is a big difference between this programme and other programmes. And the reason is not the quality of education, it is funding from the Uni. There are a lot of expenditures that UNICRI does not have that causes other institutions to increase it's price.

Fifth, because the programme is in conjunction with University of Turin, there are unique opportunities opened with the local and national governments. Just this year, the students worked with the Post Conflict Operations Study Centre on current problems being faced in Afghanistan. You absolutely cannot get this experience at any other programme! Additionally, the mock trial exercise was held in a first class court facility located in the Turin Municipal Justice Centre.

Finally, your diploma with be issued by both the University of Turin AND the UNITED NATIONS! Think about that? It looks nice on your CV...trust me.

I hope this information aids you in your decision.

Thanks for your reply!

I consider this program an opportunity worth pursuing save for a few doubts I was hoping you could help me with. One of the things that concern me is their reliance on a "flying faculty", the practice of flying in visiting professors to teach a few lectures and leave. In your experience, has this practice adversely affected student-faculty interactions or is it a non-matter?

Be that as it may, my primary concern is with academics. I've been in contact with former graduates of the program who have mentioned that few of the luminaries listed on the website had actually taken part in lecturing (two of those listed as former lecturers on UNICRI's website where totally unaware of the program's existence when I contacted them via e-mail) whereas moot court was supervised by less capable tutors while some complained that research assistants weren't available during thesis preparation. Is such true? and, regardless, what's your overall impression of the academic content and rigor of the program?

One final matter that I'd like to seek clarification on the "mobility" of the degree. This LLM is a relatively young and somewhat unknown program, how is it perceived abroad? Have any of the program's former students moved on to pursue further education, such as a PhD or a SJD, from European or American universities? However, what really concerns me is the career prospects after earning the degree. UNICRI's website doesn't mention whether there is a career counselling service, whether there are any opportunities for externships or networking, and if the program has lead some of its graduates to find permanent placement at international organizations.

While I understand that you may not have the time to respond to every single inquiry, I would highly appreciate it if you could provide me with any information to help make up my mind about this LLM. Feel free to add any input you find relevant.

As an aside, do you happen to have softcopies of the reading lists you were given? I already have the course outlines. Also, and I know that I'm being somewhat bothersome, can you scan or take a pic of your diploma and make it available? I just want to know what it says exactly.

Thanks,
-pfui

Hello again. More questions...I love it!

First, sorry to say, I will not scan my diploma and send it to an unknown person. Sorry. But I can tell you that at the culmination of the programme, you will receive (if you pass, because some people do not) a Masters 1 Degree and Diploma from the University of Torino (Turin). Accompanying this will be a diploma from UNICRI validating that you were instructed by the UN on the UN campus in Torino. This degree and diploma has legal significance and is recognized throughout the European Union. University of Torino was founded in 1404 and is fully accredited by the Italian Ministry of Education. I think the University is ranked 202nd in the world. Now, if you want to use the degree anywhere else, you will have to follow standard Apostille Convention procedures and then have the degree verified by the country with which you want to have it recognized by, usually called a declaration of value. You can get a degree from Oxford, Cambridge, Geneva, Yale or Leiden, but its legal value is zero outside the country that issued it unless you have a DOV like process completed (like I stated before though, the EU has mutual recognition of degrees). Some states have mutual recognition of degrees already, so the DOV process might not be needed, but I would check with your state's ministry of education.

The flying lecturers. I loved them. Yes, we did have one person reschedule (because of the Volcano in Iceland), but that person did reschedule and not cancel. Additionally, there was one time where the morning and afternoon lecturers had to switch teaching spots because of a late train. Besides that, everything else was fine. Some students did notice a drawback from this style though; it was really hard for some people to get to know someone well enough to write a recommendation to a job post. I did not have this problem. You get out of the programme exactly what you put in! It is like that everywhere! I cannot stress that point enough ;)

About contacting the current/former professors, please do not write them an email/call them unless you know them on a personal or well-founded professional basis. Honestly, they do not like that. We had one professor this year state that he refused to reply to emails of this nature. Sorry.

The mock trial. First, it is not a moot court, it is a mock trial. The programme's trial practice simulates a court of first instance whereas a moot court is supposed to decide cases that have already been adjudicated (an appeals court). It is a common misconception that is perpetuated by students and sometimes unfortunately adopted by major institutions. Having written that, I know that the programme directors have said that they are placing together a more comprehensive and concrete package together for the mock trial. There were some problems with the mock trial, but let us face the real-life situation, there are always problems with every trial! Students tend to want perfection at every step; they do not want to be forced to find the materials that they need. In my personal opinion, the programme aptly prepared students for the mock trial. The major problem I noticed was that the majority of the students that repeatedly complained about the workings of the mock trial were also the same students that did not make the effort to utilize some of the in class activities that the programme offered. My only real problem with the mock trial was that not everyone was offered the chance to participate in the actually trial. There were only 2 days of mock trial whereas I thought that there should have been 4 days. By having 4 days, every person would have been afforded the chance to act as a speaking prosecutor, defence counsel or victims witness representative. To the best of my knowledge, this problem is also being considered right now too. But everyone was given the opportunity to participate fully in all stages leading up to the trial (i.e. witness preparation, researching, writing briefs, etc.).

Thesis prep - My tutor for my thesis was awesome, but the reviews on other tutors were mixed. Here is the problem, I think that people wanted way too much feedback from their tutors. A thesis should be an independent project in which a tutor only guides you. If you talk to your tutor more then 3-4 times during the month of June, you have spoken too much. That is just my opinion though. I have written several thesis papers (3) for three separate institutions. All of the professors lowered your final grade if you needed too much guidance from the tutor. Like I said, if you enroll in a Master of Laws programme, you should only need to talk to your tutor 3-4 times.

Career counseling service - UNICRI did bring in a well respected individual to help us with our CVs. There is also a career counseling service located on the UN campus, but I never used it (and I'm not even sure if we are allowed to use it because it is operated, I think, by the ITC/ILO). We did have one excellent tutor that posted UN job postings (from both the UN Website and other UN Civil Service Organisations) on our Blackboard platform (the platform was called Moodle). But honestly, this is the one area that will need to be addressed by UNICRI (I believe it is, but do not quote me on that). I know that the 3rd edition of the programme had an entire week of career counseling, but it was PARTLY replaced by practical class exercises. There are opportunities for internships after the programme (at least there were with UNICRI after the two previous editions). The programme does not offer externship opportunities, but that is not to say that you could not find one during Easter Break or during the month of June (this month is used for thesis preparation and one student this past year actually did this). Since this programme is an intensive LL.M., there is really no time for one. Remember, you are receiving 60 ECTS (roughly equivalent to 24 US/CA credit hours) in 8 months, most of which will be during the 6 month on campus portion.

As for internship applications, I would start applying for internships with international organisations in November/December. Internships in IOs usually take 6-12 months to process (unless you know someone on the inside). But here is the reality....there is an overabundance of qualified people seeking jobs right now. Applications are 2-4 times higher than 3 years ago. Any school that says that they can place you into IOs after graduating is stretching the truth. The good old connections that people have just do not cut it anymore. Yes, if you are the top student, you might be able to get enough references from the right people, but it is just not the same as it was before the market crash.

Former students - There are some students right now (6 or 7) that have taken on positions with the UNV and other IOs. A couple were from former connections, but some were because of this programme. A few people also are applying for Ph.D. programmes in Europe. Many people though still have job commitments back at home (hence, they are required to return because of contractual obligations). But because of the aforementioned problems with the job market, not as many this year have received positions as should have. It is not because they do not deserve it, but because there are so few P1 and P2 positions out there to get. You are going to have this problem though no matter where you go.

Dealing with US Ph.D. programmes, I can tell that you there are a few students looking to apply for Ph.D. programmes in the US. You will have to get the whole DOV thing done during the application process (or maybe even before), but US schools look for the well-rounded individual (just like most other schools across the world).

Finally, my recommendation is to apply to programmes that will further your career goals. This programme teaches a lot on IHL and HR. If you want to specifically go into HR, there are other programmes designed for that area of international law. If you want to study IHL, UNICRI and Geneva are going to be your best pick. If you want general Public International Law, Leiden might be a good choice, but it is extremely expensive! You should remember too that the ICTY is closing soon, so many of the opportunities that people used to have at Leiden are rapidly fading away (even though there still is the ICC and the Appeals Chamber for the International Criminal Tribunals). Decide what area of law you want to study and choose the programme accordingly. I wanted international criminal law and the international justice system...which is exactly what I received from UNICRI! I loved it.

Anymore questions, just let me know.

hello
first i would like to say that i am glad you like answering questions. second i would like to ask you a few questions:
I am someone wants to work in the field of IHL so after reading your post i feel this llm is well suited for me.
i wanted to know how good are the e-modules?
second i wanted to ask you if you do not mind telling me if you managed to get a job after this llm and if it infact was the llm which made the difference and how
third id like to know what work you are doing currently and how helpful has the llm been at your workplace
how practical is it?

Dear trishna.mk:

I am always happy to answer questions, and like I wrote earlier, please feel free to ask away!

e-modules - First, I have to answer this question honestly...the e-modules are very intensive. The time that you are expected to spend each week (15-18 hours) is more realistic than we were told last year. Honestly though, you will probably spend about 20 hours per week. The readings assigned per week will be anywhere from 50 to 150 pages. The readings are usually 80 pages. It is not as bad at is sounds though. It should take you about 15 hours to read it. You will also have two writing assignments per week to hand in. One assignment will be an individual writing assignment and the other will be a group assignment. The group assignment will use the paper from the previous week (if it uses the same format as last year). You (the group) will be tasked with re-writing the assignment in a group fashion. You should have a very good grasp of IHL, HR, international criminal courts, international jurisdictions and international organisations. But trust me, you will learn a lot more during the on-campus portion!

Work - I explained a little bit about this in one of my previous posts, but I do not mind detailing this more. I am not currently working for an international organisation right now. Since the end of the programme, I have returned to my home State, but that does not mean that I am not trying. During the programme, I made some contacts with some of the right people, but the issue of waiting for an opening in the organisations that these people work at remains the pivotal issue. The jobs just are not out there for P1 and P2 positions. Your main focus should be on the learning experience and making contacts in these organisations so when the positions are posted, you make use one of those contacts to get an interview. Here is an example from my experience: I applied to a P2 position recently. The post received over 400 applications. While I was well qualified for the position, the nature of the position (a non-career position with no advancement possibility within that organisation) changed the normal parameters used to interview applicants. People that qualified for P4 and P5 positions applied too. Normally, those persons in a career-tract position would have been discounted because of their experience levels, but because of the nature of the contract, the organisation did not care whether the person was highly overqualified or not. Stuff happens. That's the way that the world operates. That being said, I personally know that two students accepted (more were offered) positions with the UNV and several others have internships with IO's. There were also many students that had lucrative positions at home. They went to UNICRI to get a better understanding of International Law for their own governments (I know of two students personally and their were rumors of a few more). Those students had very little ability to apply it IO's. Either way, the programme has increased my ability to get real positions in IO's. As for internships, I personally refuse to apply for internships. I am too qualified to work as an unpaid intern when there is no guarantee for employment afterward.

Work - Right now am I applying for several different positions with both my national and government and IO's. Within my national government, this programme will prove practical and useful in most of the positions. The same goes for the positions within the IO's. Sorry, but that's really all I can say about that. Hope this helps!

Thanx alot

It was very helpful

Hi there, I also have a question about the kind of experience the students on the course had, ie. were there are a range of people from those who had just done undergraduate degrees to those who were regarded as 'professionals'. It would be helpful for me to find that out, as I worry about having too little experience or being too young, sometimes these programmes prefer you to have a certain number of years experience in a relevant area of employment, of which i dont really have, just a plain old LLB really!
If you could let me know, that would be awesome!
Cheers!

Hello,

I have a couple of questions about the UNICRI LLM that will probably interest other potential applicants too.

1) are mid-career professionals studying there too, or only 25 year olds?
2) the thesis topic - I haven't found any information about topics that the LLM thesis can cover - does it have to have a clear legal/judicial aspect ? or can it be empirical fact-finding (ex. cyber crime in Albania)?
Any examples?
3) What other graduate programs are there with a good ranking and reputation in crime/corruption prevention and policy analysis? has anyone heard of the Msc at Univ of Portsmouth? Any MA in international relations or public policy with such a specialization?

Thank you!
SAL

Sorry it took so long to reply...hopefully everyone receives positive news in the coming months.

1.) There were many mid-career professionals in last year's cohort. The average age was 30. That being said, the ages ranged from 22 to 40 (the majority of people being between 27 and 33).

2.) Thesis topics - Yes, there has to be some legal/judicial aspect. The whole purpose of a thesis is to ask a question and answer it (whether or not it's positive or negative).

ThirdDept...good reading your replies...I am going to look into this in the future

hi
i just got my acceptance from UNICRI i was wondering if anyone else got accepted?
also they barely give you any time to deposit the money
so i was hoping you guys who have braved this llm would be nice and honest enough with your opinions
also how long does it take to get the declaration of value?
also any1 who could enlighten me on the living costs i would be highly grateful

Thank you for your reactions to the post...a bit late but have been traveling.
I am accepted on the waiting list but am still undecided, I can't get responses from alumni or professionals of the sector on the LLM. Has anyone managed to get feedback from professionals working in the sector?

hi SAL
im also trying and hoping to get some responses
please do let me know if u find out anything

I have also been selected, i hope to raise the fee within the time, please let connect, my email id is dotun_osho@yahoo.com

Hey, I m from Liberia and was selected for the LLM on a partial scholarship. Anyone having info on accommodation should kindly contact me.

Very useful questions and answers - thanks, especially to ThirdDept. Could you please write what are the thesis requirements?

1. time period for writing the thesis
2. length of the thesis

Thank you!

Hey, I also got accepted to UNICRI. I wonder there is anyone who knows how the accommodation procedure works. For me, Italy is virtually a new place to be. Apparently, UNICRI is not offering a place to stay. ITC seems to have a very expensive room which I cannot afford. Does anyone know where previous students usually got their rents in general? I understand that it is all up to each student and there is no generality on this issue. But still I was just wondering that certain external institution could be supportive to UNICRI affiliated people. Thank you.

Hi everyone! I also got in the LL.M - 2010/2011 and I'm obviously worried about accommodation (and other practical details) as well. However, I've talked with a friend of mine that lived in Turin a few years ago (btw, he also earned a Maste's Degree from UNITO) and he told me that he shared an apartment with some other students during the whole LL.M, which is, according to him, the best and the most inexpensive way to live in Turin.
For this matter, I was wondering if any of you guys is interested in sharing an apartment. I've been searching lots of sites and apparently there are some good options.
Anyway, let's keep in touch.
Best of luck to all of you.

Nice one MSM1877, I did the same sharing apartment in Pisa during my studies at Scuola SantAnna, which is easy on the pocket. Im on hand should you find an apartment to share from February to May.

Sly