Help!!! I completed a four year LLB degree in Law and American Law in the UK, and just received my LLM in the US, but the CA State Bar has said I still need to study law for another 2 years to qualify to sit for the Bar exam?!! I have studied law for five years and come from a common law country!! Do you need to actually be licensed in the UK in order to qualify??

WTF???? Ok let's calm down. Some States can be extremely funny when it comes to admitting foreign lawyers. Would I be right if I assume that you did not take (too many) of the subjects tested on the CA bar exam during your LL.M days?

I ask this question because I had this exact problem when I applied to the Board of Bar Examiners in one of the Midwest States.One reason my application was denied was because I hadn't taken the usual crappy bar subjects during my LL.M program. I took courses like Immigration & Asylum law, Health law etc. I was extremely disappointed & pissed off but sprung back from adversity really quickly by applying to another State. I'm now registered there to take the Feb. exam.

I feel your pain but right now life doesn't begin and end in CA. There are tons of other States that will allow you to take their bar exam. Once you pass one exam, you can always waive into CA, if CA allows reciprocity with that State.

I also got my law degree from a common law country. Darn, I was even born in the USA. I know of people who are not licensed in my home country (Nigeria) that are able to take the NY bar exam without even meeting the 24 credit requirement NY requires. Each State has its own set of rules. The more I think about it, the more I feel insulted on your behalf. What kind of stupid law do they want you to learn for another two years? Are they going to pay for this wealth of knowledge they want you to acquire?

Do they realize that IF law school prepares ONE for the bar exam, why then do all law students have to register for a bar review course after graduating?

The rules are not fair, but what can you do? Appeal and have them waste your time? Give yourself some time to be angry about this, then use that anger to read & pass the upcoming bar exam in another State.

PM if you're still interested in hearing me rant!

But seriously print out this publication http://www.ncbex.org/pubs/pdf/031505_COMPGUIDE2005.pdf and decide where you're going to apply to next. It's not too late, and PLEASE don't allow the system to get to you.

I am hoping that there is some sort of mistake - I have had some confusion just with the registration process because they only accept online registration for CA now, and I wasn't able to submit my registration initially because it didn't recognize that law degrees in the UK are undergarfuate.....! So, the admisssions office told me to change dates on the form so I could submit it. I ended up basically saying I had done a two year BA followed by a two year law degree, just so the registration would go through..... so MAYBE (fingers crossed) that is the mistake..... (The other documents i submitted, however, do make it fairly clear i did a four year LLB I thought....)

If it turns out i am unable to sit for the CA Bar though, I really need to take another Bar exam in February 2006.... is it too late now to get eligibility assessed and submit an application for another state?

At what point would you know for sure that you'd be able to sit for the CA bar? You've got to be careful as per inconsistencies with the Board. That may have been what raised the red flag with them. Regardless, the idea of studying more law is simply inconceivable!

As per other States, you've got to check the individual requirements. Some States don't even test for educational equivalency! Since you're taking CA you may want to join the yahoo group (CaliforniaBarExamPrimer) nice place for general info....etc.

As an American attorney who is licensed to practice in California, I have to disagree with the previous postings about how California's rules about allowing foreign attorneys to take the bar exam is "unfair."

And for everyone's reference, here are the California Bar's produres and requirements for foreign-trained attorneys: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/sf_legal-edu-outside-us.pdf

California has the most strict requirements in the United States for a very good reason -- there are too many attorneys in California already and many more want to move there everyday. There are simply not enough jobs to meet the demand of attorneys who want to live in California, so the state has to restrict the amount of people who are admitted to practice every year.

How would you feel if I came to your home country and wanted to live there and become admitted as an attorney, and your country waived its requirements in some respects so that I could do so easily. Wouldn't you be upset that I didn't have to comply with the same requirements you did? And even worse, what if that happened and then I got a job that you wanted? Now that would be unfair, wouldn't it.

The standard legal education in the United States is 4 years of undergraduate studies at a college or university, leading to a Bachelor's degree. Then to earn a JD, we attend law school for anoher 3 years. That is 7 years total education after high school to become eligible to sit for a bar and apply for admission to practice in a US state.

I think you should highly consider doing an LLM degree in the United States. It only takes 9 months, and many schools are very generous with scholarships to foreign students. Taking a LLM would most likely qualify you to sit for the California Bar exam. And you get the added bonus of not having to take the first year law students exam ("baby bar") before being allowed to take the real California bar exam.

Otherwise, you can plead your case to the California bar by specifically listing all of your university and legal education. Then they make the decision whether that is enough education to quality to sit for the bar. If it is not, then it appears that the only way to become eligible is do an LLM in the United States, or do more legal schooling in your home country or another foreign country.

Good luck in your goal of taking the California bar exam. I know all of the rules can be quite frustrating but they have a good rationale behind them.

Oops!

I apologize to the original poster, I did not see the part that said you had already completed a LLM in the United States.

From what you've said, I think you will be approved to take the CA bar. But you should type up a very detailed statement of all of your legal education in the UK and the US, and mail it to the Cal bar in hardcopy form. Be as specific and detailed as you can. The online application doesn't give you much room to explain your education.

We can disagree to agree but thanks to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. What I personally felt was 'unfair' has now been made 'fair'.

Foreign Lawyers Get a Break
Mike McKee
The Recorder
10-11-2005

An international legal crisis has been averted.

On Thursday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill that eliminated a procedural snag that had effectively prevented foreign lawyers from practicing in California without living here.

Last year, the State Bar began enforcing a state statute that required any applicant for a Bar license to provide a Social Security number as part of a program to crack down on deadbeat dads.

Previously, the Bar had assigned random nine-digit numbers for the benefit of foreign lawyers.

The requirement for an actual Social Security number had the effect of barring out-of-country attorneys who traditionally practiced law or took the state's bar exam while residing in their home countries.

Barristers in England and Ireland were particularly upset.

The bill approved by Schwarzenegger -- AB 664, sponsored by Assembly Judiciary Committee Chairman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento, Calif. -- clears up the problem by letting applicants use a federal tax identification number or "other appropriate identification" in lieu of a Social Security number.


As an American attorney who is licensed to practice in California, I have to disagree with the previous postings about how California's rules about allowing foreign attorneys to take the bar exam is "unfair."

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1128947760516

hi,
great to hear about the new regulatons about the SSN requirement for foreing trained lawyers. i am looking to write the BAR. can someone tell me where to send my papers like score cards etc. in order to take the bar exam. is it adviable to do LLM here before taking tje BAR exam. i am a Indian trained lawyer.

thanks in advance.
priya

Hi Bardiva,

may i know your name? anyways i enquired with the California Bar about the exemption of SSN i also referred to the new article about the prospective use of tan indentification number for the purpose of state bar registration. but they dont seem to be aware of that. i do have SSN as i am on H-4 visa. what should i do in order to get registered with the Bar. Thanks in advance.

We can disagree to agree but thanks to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. What I personally felt was 'unfair' has now been made 'fair'.

Foreign Lawyers Get a Break
Mike McKee
The Recorder
10-11-2005

An international legal crisis has been averted.

On Thursday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill that eliminated a procedural snag that had effectively prevented foreign lawyers from practicing in California without living here.

Last year, the State Bar began enforcing a state statute that required any applicant for a Bar license to provide a Social Security number as part of a program to crack down on deadbeat dads.

Previously, the Bar had assigned random nine-digit numbers for the benefit of foreign lawyers.

The requirement for an actual Social Security number had the effect of barring out-of-country attorneys who traditionally practiced law or took the state's bar exam while residing in their home countries.

Barristers in England and Ireland were particularly upset.

The bill approved by Schwarzenegger -- AB 664, sponsored by Assembly Judiciary Committee Chairman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento, Calif. -- clears up the problem by letting applicants use a federal tax identification number or "other appropriate identification" in lieu of a Social Security number.


As an American attorney who is licensed to practice in California, I have to disagree with the previous postings about how California's rules about allowing foreign attorneys to take the bar exam is "unfair."

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1128947760516

In my lifetime I've been called many names. Some have been audible. Others have left me speechless. It basically depends!!!!
Anyway all the information you need as per the CALI bar can be found here.

http://calbar.xap.com/Applications/CalBar/California_Bar_Exam/default.asp

Scroll down to Instructions for the Application to take the California Bar Examination

Click on Foreign Educated Applicants

As per the TIN. Refer to AB664 & Section 6060.6 of the Business and Professions Code.

Is it possible to apply for an SSN by the following rule from the official website of Social Security Administration?

"You may apply for a Social Security number if you do not have permission to work:...
- If a state or local law requires you to show your Social Security number to get general assistance benefits."

Can we say CA law requiring SSN to register with the bar is "a state or local law requires you to show your Social Security number to get general assistance benefits"?

In my lifetime I've been called many names. Some have been audible. Others have left me speechless. It basically depends!!!!
Anyway all the information you need as per the CALI bar can be found here.

http://calbar.xap.com/Applications/CalBar/California_Bar_Exam/default.asp

Scroll down to Instructions for the Application to take the California Bar Examination

Click on Foreign Educated Applicants

As per the TIN. Refer to AB664 & Section 6060.6 of the Business and Professions Code.

Hey Priya....It was a sexual joke...so you didn't hurt my feelings!!!! The link can be found below. Sorry I didn't include this earlier...http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9395985393+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

If that doesn't work. Go to http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Check the first box : Business and Professions Code
Then in the search bottom. Enter 6060.6
The first link [BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE SECTION 6060-6069 : 24612 bytes]. should be what you are looking for.

As per AB664 you can read the full article here: http://clear.blogs.com/clear/2005/10/previous_ca_bil.html
[Previous CA bill poses problems for foreign lawyers].

I'm not taking the CA bar & so I'm not sure what the exact requirements are as per # of years. etc. However what I will say is if you are allowed to take the bar in ANY other State in the US, take it there. That then leads to a total different scenario. I'd pm you with that information so I don't clog the board up.

http://calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/sf_legal-edu-outside-us.pdf

this should give you all the information you need as a foreign attorney interested in getting a California license. An LLM is preferable but not required, to take the CA bar. If you don't have an LLM, you can still take the exam provided you complete the foreign law study evaluation. Other than the 3 day bar exam, you would need to take and pass (get 79+) on the MPRE and a positive moral character determination.

I don't intend to start a storm or cause anyone to panic. But lawgirl707 did you hear that there's a proposal in CA to increase the passing score required for the MPRE from a scaled score of 79 to a scaled score of 86? What do you think?
Link: http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10145&n=70800

Again. I don't intend to cause a stir. It's only a proposal. I just want to know what others think. Thanks

http://www.livejournal.com/users/llm_girl/

hmmm, thats news to me. i think they'll be eliminating a bunch of wannabe lawyers with this new rule (if it ever gets approved) but honestly speaking, if your performance on the MPRE is airtight, getting a 100+ is no big deal. for future mpre takers, one piece of advice on how to go this, is just practice the real MPRE past administered exams over and over again. there's free live lectures available on the net for the substantive aspect, just visit the following link to access it-
http://www.mbe.pli.edu/freempre/freempre.html

sorry, i meant "how to DO this, not how to 'go' this" :) cheers!

I got the MPRE out of the way earlier in the year & I swear by Pieper. He's simply the best....Again you're right. If one practices ENOUGH past questions, folks shouldn't have any problems with the MPRE. It got to a point in the exam where I actually thot I was in the minds of the drafers.

As per these rules/proposal that keep changing. I guess the sooner I get the bar exam out of the way, the better & happier I shall hopefully be...thanks.

hmmm, thats news to me. i think they'll be eliminating a bunch of wannabe lawyers with this new rule (if it ever gets approved) but honestly speaking, if your performance on the MPRE is airtight, getting a 100+ is no big deal. for future mpre takers, one piece of advice on how to go this, is just practice the real MPRE past administered exams over and over again. there's free live lectures available on the net for the substantive aspect, just visit the following link to access it-
http://www.mbe.pli.edu/freempre/freempre.html

Hi Diva,

Thanks a lot for all the info. but one thing is still unclear to me. the Business and Professions Code (6060.6) is missing in the text. it has 6060.5 but 6060.6 is missing and again it starts with 6060.9. and it doesnt say about the exemption of SSN for foreign attorneys. i talked to the Stae bar. i referred to the new law, but they are not aware of that. please lemme me how to go with it. like i do not have SSN, but i do have ITIN. i hear foreign attorneys taking the cal bar. do all have SSN or is it only me who doesnt have it and am still trying to take the bar exam

thakns,

Hey Priya....It was a sexual joke...so you didn't hurt my feelings!!!! The link can be found below. Sorry I didn't include this earlier...http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9395985393+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

If that doesn't work. Go to http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Check the first box : Business and Professions Code
Then in the search bottom. Enter 6060.6
The first link [BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE SECTION 6060-6069 : 24612 bytes]. should be what you are looking for.

As per AB664 you can read the full article here: http://clear.blogs.com/clear/2005/10/previous_ca_bil.html
[Previous CA bill poses problems for foreign lawyers].

I'm not taking the CA bar & so I'm not sure what the exact requirements are as per # of years. etc. However what I will say is if you are allowed to take the bar in ANY other State in the US, take it there. That then leads to a total different scenario. I'd pm you with that information so I don't clog the board up.

I know that the State Bar requires that all registered law students have a United States Social Security Number. But I heard that the State has passed a new law that will change this requirement as of 1-1-06. Is it true? Anybody knows that?