Hi everybody!

I have been admitted in a LLM in comparative law program (san diego, CA) and I am thinking about trying to pass the bar exam.

I am French so I believe it is only possible in two states: California and NY state. Is this true?
When do the exams take place?

As I am beginning courses in Spring 2009 semester, I am wondering if I could pass the bar exam in July 2009 in instance, even though I will finish the LLM program only in December 2009.

Is the bar exam sufficient or maybe a period of internship is necessary then?

Another question for French people: is it possible to get an equivalence in France of a US bar exam, given the fact I am French and I have already failed the CRFPA once? What are the conditions?

Thank you very much.

Salut Marie,
Yes ton LLM est suffisant pr pouvoir passer le NY ou CA (bcp + selectif) bar exam.
Par contre il te faudra avoir le LLM en poche dc en ppe tu ne pourras t'inscrire q pour la session de fevrier 2010!!!
Enfin, une equivalence est possible, procedure dite de l'art 100 pour pouvoir t'inscrire au barreau de Paris (qqes exams encore a passer...)
Bon courage!

OP,

I do not know the educational requirements to take the New York bar exam for foreign educated applicants. For California, if you are a licensed french attorney, you could take the July 2009 California bar exam during your summer break from the University of San Diego. You could then take the New York bar exam in February 2010 after your December 2009 LL.M graduation. If you are not a licensed french attorney, you would need to meet certain requirements to take the California bar exam.

http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115

If you are a licensed attorney, click on the Attorney Applicant link on the left side of the page for the necessary requirements to take the California bar exam. If you are not a licensed attorney, click Pre-Legal and Legal Education link for the necessary requirements. BTW, San Diego is a great town. You are going to love it.

Thank you to both of you!!!

Actually I am not a licensed attorney in France but I do already have a Master's degree (from the university of Paris 1 - Sorbonne).

I found something on the Internet: http://calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/Outside-Ed-Bulletin.pdf

Maybe a French Master's degree in Law could be recognized as equivalent to an LLM in a US accredited School of Law? What do you think?

Thanks.


Marie

Marie,

I don't think a French Master's degree in law would be recognized as the equivalent of a US accredited LL.M. Under the new California admission rules, there are three types of foreign applicants, which are as follows:

1. Foreign applicants who are licensed attorneys in their home country. These applicants may take the California bar examination without any further legal education in the United States. A US LL.M is NOT required for these licensed attorney applicants.

2. Foreign applicants who have a foreign law degree that is considered the equivalent to a US J.D. degree. These applicants must obtain a US accredited LL.M program requiring a minimum of 20 units or complete a minimum of 20 units at an accredited law school. In completing the 20 units, the foreign applicant must complete a certain number of courses actually tested on the California bar exam and a professional responsibility course.

3. Foreign applicants who do not have a foreign law degree equivalent to a US J.D. These applicants must have the equivalent of two years of undergraduate education AND complete for years of legal studies in the US.

As you can see, the easiest way to take the California Bar exam is to be a foreign attorney.

Marie

Agreed with richardvf, but just have some more experience to share as i have a similar situation as you:

I'm not a licensed lawyer in Hong Kong either, and I'm at the category "2" as richardvf described.

The best bet for you is to write to CA bar to confirm whether upon completion of your LLM in San Diego you would be entitled to take the CA bar.

The difference between you and me is that i received a JD from Hong Kong which is a common law jurisdiction, while you came from a civil law jurisdiction. As a foreign-educated candidate, you may be required by CA bar to make an evaluation of your law degree via a independent service provider, such as www.wes.org. This organization will send a very detailed report to CA bar to confirm whether your degree in France is "substantially equivalient" to a US JD or not. If yes, you're in category "2" like me, just take a 20-credits LLM would be fine to take the CA bar; if not, you may need to take further law courses in order to comply with the requirements.

Hope this helps.

Regards
maurice

Does anybody know the best method of learning enough US law to pass the NY Bar Exam as a practicing UK lawyer with no current knowledge of US law?

I have read about the BarBri and other courses but they appear to just show you the academic principles of essay writing and question answering. There is a comprehensive looking audio program called New York Bar Exam Audio Review, but the idea of cramming enough info in from home sounds unlikely.

Can anyone help?

I did the BarBri and it was very very useful - and I passed in July 2008. I would wanna caution you, though, that you have to be prepared to sit down and study for about 15 hours daily - Saturday and Sunday included. Just taking the review courses w/out committing yourself to study will be a total waste of money and time!

Thank you. That sounds very encouraging - even at 15 hours a day!

As a complete know-nothing when it comes to US law (but a practising UK lawyer) would the BarBri course be likely to tell me all I need to know about US law, assuming I put the effort in?

Durham,
It would be impossible to know "all you need to know about US law" by just doing a 2 month bar review course. Remember JDs take at least 3 years to learn US law, and at the end of the day I doubt very much if they know "all they need to know about US law." So the bar review course just gives you some nuts and bolts about passing the exam, and not everything about US law. Mark you, some areas of law are not tested at all - so you will never get to know them!

Sorry, I didn't phrase my question well enough.

With a sound knowledge of Common Law (LLB and professional expreience from the UK), would the Bar/Bri course tell me enough US law to pass the NY Bar Exam or is it more of a revision and coaching course for people who already have a JD?

Durham Red,

My personal opinion is that the best way to study for the bar exam is by using the Convisor Mini Review. It is a bar/bri book that condenses all relevant topics, both state specific and multi-state, down into the black letter law.

But if you have the time/money, taking an actual bar/bri course and reading the dozen or so books they provide would probably give you peace of mind.

Thanks mrw.

I have the time and money as I am enrolling on an LLM in case I fail the July NY Bar Exam. If the Bar/Bri course does get me through the exam first time then I can cancel the LLM and save some cash.

That's why I'm asking if the Bar/Bri course is worth taking if you only have foreign legal qualifications/experience as I want to work in NY.

I want the best and most comprehensive course to prepare me for the July exam - and, of course, saving money is a consideration too; though secondary.

*edit* short answer: yes the course will be worth taking with a foreign law background and it is the most comprehensive that I know of. You'd probably have a shot at passing with never having been to a law school.

With your common law background you will be fine sitting for the exam. Now granted, I'm not speaking from experience, since I went to a U.S. law school and have only taken the Virginia bar exam. And I never took a bar prep course.

I don't think being educated in the UK will hamper you that much since the American system is based on the English. The procedural questions, i.e., personal and subject matter jurisdiction, venue, etc. may be tricky, I don't know if you guys have similar rules.

Whether or not you pass just depends on how well you retain the information you study and how well you take exams. A friend mine scored in the 99th percentile on the LSAT and went to a Tier 1 school and still managed to fail his first time. Other classmates that I swear are mentally impaired passed.

My advice, if your worried, is search on craigslist.org for that convisor mini review. You can probably get it for a 100 bucks. Review that in your spare time from now until the bar/bri course starts. That will give you a solid foundation to begin with. Then you can turn on the heat during the actual course.

When you take the exam, two pieces of advice. On the essays, if you don't know the answer at least identify the legal issues the analysis would depend on. Then go through the basic analysis, I don't care if you have to make stuff up, you'll be better off than not writing anything. And on the multi-state multiple choice portion of the test, when in doubt, go with what you think SHOULD be the right answer. As in, which answer yields the most fair or just result.

Wow mrw, that was a fabulous and thorough answer. Thank you very much for taking the time to write it - it was an even better read as you were telling me exactly what I wanted to hear!

That is really encouraging and sounds like I might not have to do the LLM to gain enough US legal knowledge to pass the NY Bar Exam. I just hope I'll be able to find an employer in NY when/if I pass the exam.