Bar Exam


oddos
Hi,

Does anybody know if it is possible to take the NY Bar and the California Bar with a UK LLM and a double professional qualification UK solicitor (QLTT) / French avocat?

Is there a solution to avoid the UK LLB or the LLM in the US? I would appreciate your views on the subject.

Thanks in advance.
Hi,

Does anybody know if it is possible to take the NY Bar and the California Bar with a UK LLM and a double professional qualification UK solicitor (QLTT) / French avocat?

Is there a solution to avoid the UK LLB or the LLM in the US? I would appreciate your views on the subject.

Thanks in advance.
quote
NY and CAL do not require an LLM from an ABA approved school. The UK LLB will suffice. About half the states require such an LLM, and the other half require a full JD. Louisiana bars non US citizens/perm residents from admission, even those with JDs, though this is actually unconstitutional. But who wants to go there anyway?

Good luck getting a job with a quality firm with just an LLB and LLM followed by bar exam, unless you are incredibly exceptional. A JD is the minimum for BigLaw. Plus, the US really hasn't cottoned on to this whole globalization thing, resulting in a dearth of opportunities for foreign law grads or lawyers.

Best bet for average joes is to pass the bar, get a law license, form a small company, and work for yourself. Private paying criminal defense can pay upwards of 70K in big cities. The clients pay your company, and you file the paperwork via the company to get your work permit. Or, do independent contracting work for firms via your company.
NY and CAL do not require an LLM from an ABA approved school. The UK LLB will suffice. About half the states require such an LLM, and the other half require a full JD. Louisiana bars non US citizens/perm residents from admission, even those with JDs, though this is actually unconstitutional. But who wants to go there anyway?

Good luck getting a job with a quality firm with just an LLB and LLM followed by bar exam, unless you are incredibly exceptional. A JD is the minimum for BigLaw. Plus, the US really hasn't cottoned on to this whole globalization thing, resulting in a dearth of opportunities for foreign law grads or lawyers.

Best bet for average joes is to pass the bar, get a law license, form a small company, and work for yourself. Private paying criminal defense can pay upwards of 70K in big cities. The clients pay your company, and you file the paperwork via the company to get your work permit. Or, do independent contracting work for firms via your company.



quote
oddos
Thank you for your views which are much appreciated. I agree that the main difficulty will be to find a job in the US after the bar is passed. However, I imagine that it is not even worth thinking working in the US as a lawyer without the bar exam...please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

However, some of my questions which remain unanswered were more focussed on the bar exam itself

1/ Would anyone know of a solution to take the NY bar if one is a qualified solicitor but without a LLB in the UK or a LLM in the US?

2/ Would anyone know what the 20 semester hours of credit mentionned in the NY Bar regulations stand for? Would it be possible to go to the US let's say for 2 weeks to catch up if you only hold a UK LLM (but no LLB) and a UK qualification (via the QLTT)? I did not quite catch the notions of "durationally equivalent yet substantively deficient" in 520.6...Could somebody explain it to me?

3/ Does anybody know if it is possible to follow distance learning programs/part time programs from London for JDs and/or LLBs which would open the gates to the NY Bar? I saw somewhere that these programs would not give credit to take the bar. Is it correct. If not would you recommend any?

4/ Last question a little further down the line: If the CA bar is open to foreign qualified lawyers without a LLB (i.e. even from civil law countries), is there an equivalence between the CA Bar and the NY Bar? Would it still be necessary to show a UK LLB or a US LLM to take the NY Bar once qualified in California?

A big thanks to everybody who could assist me in that...and sorry for the lengthy list of questions.
Thank you for your views which are much appreciated. I agree that the main difficulty will be to find a job in the US after the bar is passed. However, I imagine that it is not even worth thinking working in the US as a lawyer without the bar exam...please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

However, some of my questions which remain unanswered were more focussed on the bar exam itself

1/ Would anyone know of a solution to take the NY bar if one is a qualified solicitor but without a LLB in the UK or a LLM in the US?

2/ Would anyone know what the 20 semester hours of credit mentionned in the NY Bar regulations stand for? Would it be possible to go to the US let's say for 2 weeks to catch up if you only hold a UK LLM (but no LLB) and a UK qualification (via the QLTT)? I did not quite catch the notions of "durationally equivalent yet substantively deficient" in 520.6...Could somebody explain it to me?

3/ Does anybody know if it is possible to follow distance learning programs/part time programs from London for JDs and/or LLBs which would open the gates to the NY Bar? I saw somewhere that these programs would not give credit to take the bar. Is it correct. If not would you recommend any?

4/ Last question a little further down the line: If the CA bar is open to foreign qualified lawyers without a LLB (i.e. even from civil law countries), is there an equivalence between the CA Bar and the NY Bar? Would it still be necessary to show a UK LLB or a US LLM to take the NY Bar once qualified in California?

A big thanks to everybody who could assist me in that...and sorry for the lengthy list of questions.
quote
oddos
Would an ABA LLM make me eligible to take the NY Bar exam even if I am from a civil law country?

Is the fact that I trained in France be considered substantially and temporarily deficient? I am doomed to never be able to take the NY Bar or will a US LLM cure that?

Thank you for your views...I am desperate. Is it me or are the regulations unclear?

What is an individual waiver and can it work?
Would an ABA LLM make me eligible to take the NY Bar exam even if I am from a civil law country?

Is the fact that I trained in France be considered substantially and temporarily deficient? I am doomed to never be able to take the NY Bar or will a US LLM cure that?

Thank you for your views...I am desperate. Is it me or are the regulations unclear?

What is an individual waiver and can it work?
quote
katxyz
As I understand it, if you are from France, you need to have done an LLB or equivalent 3 year law degree in France (i.e. education equivalent in time), and then an LLM in ABA school to cure the deficiency of civil lawl education
As I understand it, if you are from France, you need to have done an LLB or equivalent 3 year law degree in France (i.e. education equivalent in time), and then an LLM in ABA school to cure the deficiency of civil lawl education
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oddos
Thank you very much. This is much clearer now.
Thank you very much. This is much clearer now.
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IntLaw
Very informative post indeed!! Thanks people!!
Very informative post indeed!! Thanks people!!
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shree
I'm a foreign law student who just took the February NY bar exam. What's required is an LLB from a foreign jurisdiction. There are no cut-offs re honours...all that is required is that you have graduated from a law degree. As for when to apply for the February exam, the deadline is: No more than 120 days before the exam and no less than 90 days...so, your cut-off date tends to be late November.

Barbri and Peiper both provide good bar review courses which provide for holistic preparation.

Good luck to those who want to give it a shot.

P.S. you do not have to be admitted in the foreign jurisdiction. You must simply have attained an LLB.
I'm a foreign law student who just took the February NY bar exam. What's required is an LLB from a foreign jurisdiction. There are no cut-offs re honours...all that is required is that you have graduated from a law degree. As for when to apply for the February exam, the deadline is: No more than 120 days before the exam and no less than 90 days...so, your cut-off date tends to be late November.

Barbri and Peiper both provide good bar review courses which provide for holistic preparation.

Good luck to those who want to give it a shot.

P.S. you do not have to be admitted in the foreign jurisdiction. You must simply have attained an LLB.
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IntLaw
Thanks Shree. That is encouraging. If you could share with us which country your LLB degree is from, that would be helpful to a lot of ppl on this board. Thanks gain and congrats on NY Bar.
Thanks Shree. That is encouraging. If you could share with us which country your LLB degree is from, that would be helpful to a lot of ppl on this board. Thanks gain and congrats on NY Bar.
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underdog
this is a very informative thread. im in a 4 yr LLB program in the
Philippines. I know most of our laws are are patterned after the U.S. but i dont know if we adopt the Common law system. Cab an LLB from the Philippines qualify for the NY bar? please enlighten me. thanks
this is a very informative thread. im in a 4 yr LLB program in the
Philippines. I know most of our laws are are patterned after the U.S. but i dont know if we adopt the Common law system. Cab an LLB from the Philippines qualify for the NY bar? please enlighten me. thanks
quote
shree
I graduated from an Australian university in February 2006. (Haven't got my results yet, so, the congratulations must necessarily be on hold). Australia is a common law jurisdiction. For those looking to take the Feb. 2007 Bar worried about whether they qualify, you can have your qualifications assessed by the NY State Board of Law Examiners beforehand.

Cheers
I graduated from an Australian university in February 2006. (Haven't got my results yet, so, the congratulations must necessarily be on hold). Australia is a common law jurisdiction. For those looking to take the Feb. 2007 Bar worried about whether they qualify, you can have your qualifications assessed by the NY State Board of Law Examiners beforehand.

Cheers
quote
IntLaw
Thanks Shree and good luck with the results.
Thanks Shree and good luck with the results.
quote
Foreing Attorneys can only practice in 3 states-
Illinois - u need some prior practice
california- LLM ( 2 semesters in US common law) & Exam
NY-idem
for any other state u need a JD.

With regards to the NY BAR (I am taking it) , it cost between $3,000 & $5,000, depending on how many courses you would like to take. The MPRE cost about $300, Barbri $ 2,800, MPRB $400, Essays practice $100, plus registration for the 2 exams. Also, allow some meney to go to Albany to take teh exam (travel&hotel expenses).

If u are planning to work in NY for 1 year, YOU DO NOT NEED THE BAR, since u can work as a foreing attorney for most LAwfirms, and the LLM programme allows u to work in the states for 1 yr under the OPT scheme.
Foreing Attorneys can only practice in 3 states-
Illinois - u need some prior practice
california- LLM ( 2 semesters in US common law) & Exam
NY-idem
for any other state u need a JD.

With regards to the NY BAR (I am taking it) , it cost between $3,000 & $5,000, depending on how many courses you would like to take. The MPRE cost about $300, Barbri $ 2,800, MPRB $400, Essays practice $100, plus registration for the 2 exams. Also, allow some meney to go to Albany to take teh exam (travel&hotel expenses).

If u are planning to work in NY for 1 year, YOU DO NOT NEED THE BAR, since u can work as a foreing attorney for most LAwfirms, and the LLM programme allows u to work in the states for 1 yr under the OPT scheme.
quote
Aldona
Have you heard of oher states that let you take Bar exam, after completing LLMs , besides NY and CA? I'm living in CT now, and was thinking of taking LLM program here and then passing bar here, but as I read here I can't, because I graduated law in Poland and I would have to take regular JD course to do it. Thanks for any help
Have you heard of oher states that let you take Bar exam, after completing LLMs , besides NY and CA? I'm living in CT now, and was thinking of taking LLM program here and then passing bar here, but as I read here I can't, because I graduated law in Poland and I would have to take regular JD course to do it. Thanks for any help
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plazzo
Last december I happened to meet the University of Baltimore's director of the LLM program and he told me I could take the bar exam also in Washington D.C., he mentioned rule 42-b about that. I hope it's true, because I'm going to establish and work in that area after the LLM, is there anyone who can confirm that?
Last december I happened to meet the University of Baltimore's director of the LLM program and he told me I could take the bar exam also in Washington D.C., he mentioned rule 42-b about that. I hope it's true, because I'm going to establish and work in that area after the LLM, is there anyone who can confirm that?
quote
Hi all can anyone tell me what are the chances. realistically, of obtaining a job upon copmleting the NY Bar? Also can anyone recommend any institutions in London for preparing for the exams?
Hi all can anyone tell me what are the chances. realistically, of obtaining a job upon copmleting the NY Bar? Also can anyone recommend any institutions in London for preparing for the exams?
quote
PLM22
Hey,
I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July.
Hey,
I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July.
quote
Anderson
Hi all,

I greatly appreciate all the resourceful information you have been sharing here. Here is a useful and updated link to the 2006 National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) which outlines a comprehensive guide to the requirements for bar exams and which amongst the 50 states permit foreign graduates to sit for their bar exams, and if with any reservations or limitations. I hope it is helpful to you all intending, like myself, to sit one of the many state bars.

www.ncbex.org/pubs/pdf/2004CompGuide.pdf

I would also advise many should consider reciprocity of states before making choices on which states bar to sit, for it enhances your probability of practice and thus gves you a greater arena in the US legal job market.
Hi all,

I greatly appreciate all the resourceful information you have been sharing here. Here is a useful and updated link to the 2006 National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) which outlines a comprehensive guide to the requirements for bar exams and which amongst the 50 states permit foreign graduates to sit for their bar exams, and if with any reservations or limitations. I hope it is helpful to you all intending, like myself, to sit one of the many state bars.

www.ncbex.org/pubs/pdf/2004CompGuide.pdf

I would also advise many should consider reciprocity of states before making choices on which states bar to sit, for it enhances your probability of practice and thus gves you a greater arena in the US legal job market.
quote
5legal
Hey,
I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July.


Eligibility to sit the New York Bar Exam is decided by the Board of Law Examiners - www.nybarexam.org/foreign.htm.

What is certain is those UK Students who have a LLB are eligible. This is because they have completed three years of legal studies (equiv to a JD). If you can prove you have the same with BA Law and LLM then I don't see why there would be a problem.
<blockquote>Hey,
I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July.</blockquote>

Eligibility to sit the New York Bar Exam is decided by the Board of Law Examiners - www.nybarexam.org/foreign.htm.

What is certain is those UK Students who have a LLB are eligible. This is because they have completed three years of legal studies (equiv to a JD). If you can prove you have the same with BA Law and LLM then I don't see why there would be a problem.
quote
Tolsu
Hi I am a UK law graduate, I have done my LLB and the LPC and worked as a paralegal for over two years. I have recently moved to one of the big US firms in London as a paralegal and I am thinking of doing the New York Bar, Alot fo my collegues have told me to do the mircomash course and not Barbri.

Do any of you guys know micromash and do you think it is too late to start studying now if I want to take the exams in February or shoudl I wait till July.

Also what are the Job prospects in the US for people with my background if and when I pass the NY Bar?

Thansk so much in advance fro any advice you guys can offer.
Hi I am a UK law graduate, I have done my LLB and the LPC and worked as a paralegal for over two years. I have recently moved to one of the big US firms in London as a paralegal and I am thinking of doing the New York Bar, Alot fo my collegues have told me to do the mircomash course and not Barbri.

Do any of you guys know micromash and do you think it is too late to start studying now if I want to take the exams in February or shoudl I wait till July.

Also what are the Job prospects in the US for people with my background if and when I pass the NY Bar?

Thansk so much in advance fro any advice you guys can offer.
quote

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