UNSW JD 2013


barmenator

I agree they should have a long term view of this issue.

The University won't be able to hold its top position in rankings if it continues to crowd the market with lawyers, since the job quota will be filled at some point, and 2 of the key indicators to remain a top school are :

1) % of SS' who landed jobs, after graduation; and
2) average starting salary.

Both of which are conditional upon keeping the job market equilibrium.

I agree they should have a long term view of this issue.

The University won't be able to hold its top position in rankings if it continues to crowd the market with lawyers, since the job quota will be filled at some point, and 2 of the key indicators to remain a top school are :

1) % of SS' who landed jobs, after graduation; and
2) average starting salary.

Both of which are conditional upon keeping the job market equilibrium.
quote

I think the NSW legal community needs to come together and figure something out. Victoria too. A lot of lawyers don't even know about the JD yet.
Student intake numbers need to be limited. Personally I think it should be 180 max total per year. That's all the NSW schools.

They let the JD in. Is it too late to go back? Probably
My advice for law students thinking about the JD is 1 not to do it. Or 2 maybe check out Univ of Western Australia as they have dropped the LLB

I think the NSW legal community needs to come together and figure something out. Victoria too. A lot of lawyers don't even know about the JD yet.
Student intake numbers need to be limited. Personally I think it should be 180 max total per year. That's all the NSW schools.

They let the JD in. Is it too late to go back? Probably
My advice for law students thinking about the JD is 1 not to do it. Or 2 maybe check out Univ of Western Australia as they have dropped the LLB
quote
barmenator

maybe something like this
http://lawandsociety.ucsd.edu/requirements/index.html


For public law especially, or some legal ethic/history courses I have no issue at all with undergrads getting that out of the way.


Yes, Turkeyshoot. I forgot about it.

US does not tipically offer a minor in Law, however, they do offer a pre-law summer school and associations.

UCBerkeley has them both, as well.

<blockquote>maybe something like this
http://lawandsociety.ucsd.edu/requirements/index.html


For public law especially, or some legal ethic/history courses I have no issue at all with undergrads getting that out of the way. </blockquote>

Yes, Turkeyshoot. I forgot about it.

US does not tipically offer a minor in Law, however, they do offer a pre-law summer school and associations.

UCBerkeley has them both, as well.
quote

my advice for people from the US or Canada.
Don't bother coming to Australia. The simple fact is that there are way too many law students here and the teaching quality isn't good as there is too much emphasis on short-term classes that only last a week. Way too costly as well. They are doing the LLB and JD and trying to have it both ways.
Also there are Visa issues that may limit you. Unless you KNOW you are going to stay in OZ permanently then stay in your home country. Just a rip-off for the rest of us.

my advice for people from the US or Canada.
Don't bother coming to Australia. The simple fact is that there are way too many law students here and the teaching quality isn't good as there is too much emphasis on short-term classes that only last a week. Way too costly as well. They are doing the LLB and JD and trying to have it both ways.
Also there are Visa issues that may limit you. Unless you KNOW you are going to stay in OZ permanently then stay in your home country. Just a rip-off for the rest of us.
quote
barmenator

Hi, Turkeyshoot.

I think that applies not only to Australia or NZ, but to all the world.

If you're an international student, Law Schools will sell you short and expensive courses, and you will most tipically not be able to:
a) Stay and live (due to immigration rules); and
b) Practice law (due to Bar Association sules).

Therefore, they profit with your dream, and take all your money away quick. Specially, since you'll get an Out-of-State or International Student fee, which will double your tuition fees compared to local students.

Best way to practice law is definitely:
a) Where you were born or naturalized as citizen or national; (you'll need citizen or PR status to work)

b) Where you studied and your credentials are valid, or you can get them 100% transferred/recognized. (otherwise, you'll end up hanging your former Degree on the wall, to pay and study everything again, all over)

Not very motivational advice, indeed, but 100% real stuff.

Hi, Turkeyshoot.

I think that applies not only to Australia or NZ, but to all the world.

If you're an international student, Law Schools will sell you short and expensive courses, and you will most tipically not be able to:
a) Stay and live (due to immigration rules); and
b) Practice law (due to Bar Association sules).

Therefore, they profit with your dream, and take all your money away quick. Specially, since you'll get an Out-of-State or International Student fee, which will double your tuition fees compared to local students.

Best way to practice law is definitely:
a) Where you were born or naturalized as citizen or national; (you'll need citizen or PR status to work)

b) Where you studied and your credentials are valid, or you can get them 100% transferred/recognized. (otherwise, you'll end up hanging your former Degree on the wall, to pay and study everything again, all over)

Not very motivational advice, indeed, but 100% real stuff.
quote

yeah it is about money and maintaining their way of existence. Sure UNSW may have some cooler stuff but in the end it is a total disservice to many students, especially international students who are going to end up with pretty much worthless degrees. And they are talking about expanding too! The Law school is seen as a big money maker by higher ups. It should be about having a smaller class, ONE CLASS per year. Of about 70 top notch students. Also have work experience required, so each student gets to have an internship or two of experience. Real work outside the classroom. to the law schools of OZ- if any international student applies clear it with them first. It is unethical for you people to charge higher prices with a degree that won't be suitable for them. It just completely screws over the students who go there.

yeah it is about money and maintaining their way of existence. Sure UNSW may have some cooler stuff but in the end it is a total disservice to many students, especially international students who are going to end up with pretty much worthless degrees. And they are talking about expanding too! The Law school is seen as a big money maker by higher ups. It should be about having a smaller class, ONE CLASS per year. Of about 70 top notch students. Also have work experience required, so each student gets to have an internship or two of experience. Real work outside the classroom. to the law schools of OZ- if any international student applies clear it with them first. It is unethical for you people to charge higher prices with a degree that won't be suitable for them. It just completely screws over the students who go there.
quote
barmenator

I completely agree, it has become a total rip off.

Most universities now are just big moneymakers (at least the ones top-ranked in QS, USNews, and such); with some exceptions outside the English-speaking world. It's not about what they teach anymore, but how much they charge for it and to how many.

The top Australian Universities aim to do business the Harvard way, by having 300 students per class in useless purely academic LLM programs.

What kind of possible teacher-student interaction can you have in a group that large? Chances are, at the end of the term, teacher didn't even learn your name out of the roster.

They charge you a mark-up burden rate from +50% to +100% more just for being a foreigner, and 99% of the times, the international degrees (mainly LLMs) they offer won't:

1) Give you any practical international experience in the form of secured interships in top agencies, firms or companies; nor
2) Allow you to practice or take the bar exam, upon graduation.

Therefore, it's a very expensive tourist pleasure trip, that helps you just to know the place, people and practice your English skills.

You might as well do that same trip on your own for much less, pay a full-time Business English conversational course, and use the difference saved to buy a car or make a mortgage downpayment, once you're there or once you get back.

I completely agree, it has become a total rip off.

Most universities now are just big moneymakers (at least the ones top-ranked in QS, USNews, and such); with some exceptions outside the English-speaking world. It's not about what they teach anymore, but how much they charge for it and to how many.

The top Australian Universities aim to do business the Harvard way, by having 300 students per class in useless purely academic LLM programs.

What kind of possible teacher-student interaction can you have in a group that large? Chances are, at the end of the term, teacher didn't even learn your name out of the roster.

They charge you a mark-up burden rate from +50% to +100% more just for being a foreigner, and 99% of the times, the international degrees (mainly LLMs) they offer won't:

1) Give you any practical international experience in the form of secured interships in top agencies, firms or companies; nor
2) Allow you to practice or take the bar exam, upon graduation.

Therefore, it's a very expensive tourist pleasure trip, that helps you just to know the place, people and practice your English skills.

You might as well do that same trip on your own for much less, pay a full-time Business English conversational course, and use the difference saved to buy a car or make a mortgage downpayment, once you're there or once you get back.
quote

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