Where did all the international lawyers go anyway?


westlaw786

Hi,

Maybe someone here can help me. Most of the LLMers on here are aiming for something that i term 'the big money' areas of law.

But surely there must be some in here who are or have considered crime or human rights at an LLM level?

Here is my question for you. Is these any advocacy work in law firms for criminal or human rights lawyers i.e. that pays half decent ?

I have a first class LLB from an English University and am about to attend the Oxford BCL this fall, but intend to move to the USA. My subjects centre around international human rights, cirme and armed conflict.

What future do i have in the USA?

Hi,

Maybe someone here can help me. Most of the LLMers on here are aiming for something that i term 'the big money' areas of law.

But surely there must be some in here who are or have considered crime or human rights at an LLM level?

Here is my question for you. Is these any advocacy work in law firms for criminal or human rights lawyers i.e. that pays half decent ?

I have a first class LLB from an English University and am about to attend the Oxford BCL this fall, but intend to move to the USA. My subjects centre around international human rights, cirme and armed conflict.

What future do i have in the USA?
quote
Brandonm

quote
westlaw786

Does no one have a view or know something about this topic? Come on people!

Does no one have a view or know something about this topic? Come on people!
quote
Aurelius

Radovan Karadić is still on the run :-)

Radovan Karadžić is still on the run :-)
quote
fg

Are you kidding me? Everyone wants to do human rights. Well, not everyone, but most people I have met in NYC and through my LLM. The reason they are going for commercial work is that there is no well paying work in human rights.
In the US, I'd say all the human rights work is done via NGOs or non-profits. There is some work via commercial law firms due to their pro bono practices (most non-profits will send their high-profile cases to commercial practices to argue to the end due to having more resources and often better lawyers).
All this being said, despite the low level of pay, it is extremely competitive to get a job at an NGO. Most positions are taken up by Americans who have a few years experience at commercial firms. The NGOs don't have the resources to train people so they prefer you work at a commercial firm for a few years and then switch over.
That being said, if you are willing to start as an intern and work your way up on no pay you could get a great position doing human rights.
I would recommend looking at places like Human Rights Watch etc.

Are you kidding me? Everyone wants to do human rights. Well, not everyone, but most people I have met in NYC and through my LLM. The reason they are going for commercial work is that there is no well paying work in human rights.
In the US, I'd say all the human rights work is done via NGOs or non-profits. There is some work via commercial law firms due to their pro bono practices (most non-profits will send their high-profile cases to commercial practices to argue to the end due to having more resources and often better lawyers).
All this being said, despite the low level of pay, it is extremely competitive to get a job at an NGO. Most positions are taken up by Americans who have a few years experience at commercial firms. The NGOs don't have the resources to train people so they prefer you work at a commercial firm for a few years and then switch over.
That being said, if you are willing to start as an intern and work your way up on no pay you could get a great position doing human rights.
I would recommend looking at places like Human Rights Watch etc.
quote
fg

btw, I should also say that if you are interested in international law then most people go into international arbitration at commercial firms.

btw, I should also say that if you are interested in international law then most people go into international arbitration at commercial firms.
quote
westlaw786

Cheers flygirl...

Why dont they have human rights law firms in the usa???? OUCH!

The firms that NGO's are talking to must have specialist lawyers to take on that sort of work which means they have some sort of human rights dept right? Or am i clutching straws?

Cheers flygirl...

Why dont they have human rights law firms in the usa???? OUCH!

The firms that NGO's are talking to must have specialist lawyers to take on that sort of work which means they have some sort of human rights dept right? Or am i clutching straws?
quote
sanjopanza

I am planning to go into human rights and public law practice after my LLM (starting at NYU this year), but I want to do so in the UK as a barrister. As I'm sure you're well aware there is an abundance of public law chambers. It's not that well paid either (hence the massive number of people at my uni going down the commercial firm training contract path) but at least there is a readily existent and manifest practice to go into.

I am planning to go into human rights and public law practice after my LLM (starting at NYU this year), but I want to do so in the UK as a barrister. As I'm sure you're well aware there is an abundance of public law chambers. It's not that well paid either (hence the massive number of people at my uni going down the commercial firm training contract path) but at least there is a readily existent and manifest practice to go into.

quote
petra

Westlaw, it is refreshing to know there are people out there not interested in commercial law. I am interested in armed conflict , human rights and humanitarian law, but as a safepoint, I have decided to study International Law to widen my job- market as it seems human rights does not have a wide base. I am from Africa and conflict is something I deeply understand. I would really like to network with people interested in this field. I am making my applications for 2008 class.

Westlaw, it is refreshing to know there are people out there not interested in commercial law. I am interested in armed conflict , human rights and humanitarian law, but as a safepoint, I have decided to study International Law to widen my job- market as it seems human rights does not have a wide base. I am from Africa and conflict is something I deeply understand. I would really like to network with people interested in this field. I am making my applications for 2008 class.
quote
trollsoft


Why dont they have human rights law firms in the usa???? OUCH!


Because it doesn't pay.

To be sure, human rights work, non-profit work, generally any save the world legal activity is the most sought after and prestigious job in this country. JD's in this country generally talk about "big firms" with their $160,000 salaries as the "best job" but that's because we all know only the top 2-3 people (people not percent) at the top 25-20 law schools are going to get the few positions out there leaving the "best job" for the rest of us as the "big firm." There are more than 50 positions out there, but most require significant prior experience (which you may of may not have prior to your LLM).


The firms that NGO's are talking to must have specialist lawyers to take on that sort of work which means they have some sort of human rights dept right?


Unfortunately it doesn't operate under the same model. When a Corp. needs a specialist they take from their ample budget and hire one at a firm. However, NGO's are on very tight budgets (working of of grants and donations). They hire who they can afford in house and that's the end of it with rare exception. Certainly there are some exceptions, and some specialists in firms, but there are so few firm based people that do this work it can hardly even be considered a viable option for employment (you'd have to go find a few and ask how they managed to pull it off).
Generally, a "save the world" position is going to be in house to an NGO, a GO, or other type of non-profit and not at a firm.


The positions do way adequately (i.e. enough to live), and when you more up you make enough to be comfortable (though never rich). However, since they are non-profit the field has a small budget, which means few positions. However, since most lawyers are still idealistic and out to help the world there is high demand for those few positions which lets them get brilliant people at less than half what they pay corp. lawyers.

The positions are out there, and will put food on the table and kids through college, but they're not at firms, they're hard to get, and they require much sacrifice as compared to profit work.

<blockquote>
Why dont they have human rights law firms in the usa???? OUCH!
</blockquote>

Because it doesn't pay.

To be sure, human rights work, non-profit work, generally any save the world legal activity is the most sought after and prestigious job in this country. JD's in this country generally talk about "big firms" with their $160,000 salaries as the "best job" but that's because we all know only the top 2-3 people (people not percent) at the top 25-20 law schools are going to get the few positions out there leaving the "best job" for the rest of us as the "big firm." There are more than 50 positions out there, but most require significant prior experience (which you may of may not have prior to your LLM).

<blockquote>
The firms that NGO's are talking to must have specialist lawyers to take on that sort of work which means they have some sort of human rights dept right?
</blockquote>

Unfortunately it doesn't operate under the same model. When a Corp. needs a specialist they take from their ample budget and hire one at a firm. However, NGO's are on very tight budgets (working of of grants and donations). They hire who they can afford in house and that's the end of it with rare exception. Certainly there are some exceptions, and some specialists in firms, but there are so few firm based people that do this work it can hardly even be considered a viable option for employment (you'd have to go find a few and ask how they managed to pull it off).
Generally, a "save the world" position is going to be in house to an NGO, a GO, or other type of non-profit and not at a firm.



The positions do way adequately (i.e. enough to live), and when you more up you make enough to be comfortable (though never rich). However, since they are non-profit the field has a small budget, which means few positions. However, since most lawyers are still idealistic and out to help the world there is high demand for those few positions which lets them get brilliant people at less than half what they pay corp. lawyers.

The positions are out there, and will put food on the table and kids through college, but they're not at firms, they're hard to get, and they require much sacrifice as compared to profit work.
quote

Reply to Post