Stanford vs Harvard


michal

Stanford generic? It s all but generic. I advise


Gee, I was referring to the other guy post, not to Stanford.

<blockquote>Stanford generic? It s all but generic. I advise </blockquote>

Gee, I was referring to the other guy post, not to Stanford.
quote
josepidal

I have been to two other law schools libraries and it was very crowded and messy.

Then the library plus is shared by SLS and HLS.

Heh, sorry, but if there's one thing immediately striking about HLS, it's the palatial library.

<blockquote>I have been to two other law schools libraries and it was very crowded and messy.
</blockquote>
Then the library plus is shared by SLS and HLS.

Heh, sorry, but if there's one thing immediately striking about HLS, it's the palatial library.
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asterion

Hey guys,

My two cents.. I was admitted to both HLS and SLS last year. I decided to come to SLS because of my strong interest in IP/IT Law. I think I made the right call. I had the opportunity to visit HLS before deciding. The school is great, the library even better. In terms of people, Jeanne Tai from HLS is wonderfully nice but so is Krista and Roland from SLS's LST LLM. HLS's library is THE largest in the country. No questions asked. However, I really don't think it makes a difference, since most publications are available online or through interlibrary loans. If you absolutely need any publication from ANYWHERE in the world, almost all of the top law schools will get it for you. SLS has a highly entrepreneurial spirit. I'm actually thinking of doing an MBA now and sillicon valley is a way of life that you will not experience anywhere else, regardless of what people say. If technology is your thing there is nothing like the bay area. If you want to work in the U.S. after graduating, consider whther you would like to work on the east or west coast. SLS has an office of career services dedicated to aiding LLM students. This said, California law firms are more reluctant to hire LLMs than NY ones. NY firms would like both SLS and HLS alumni, but being closer to NY, HLS alumni will probably find it easier to interview with NY and east coast firms. I did not fully review HLS IP curriculum, but I can assume that SLS may offer more, since IP and Technology is in the mind of every professor here, not only those devoted to IP. By the way, at least 3 of the nation's top IP professors are at SLS. Despite being a securities lawyer, Joe Grundfest's Venture Capital course is one of the best I have seen. Having the opportunity of engaging in discussions of patent law with Mark Lemley or being personally known by Paul Goldstein, or aiding Larry Lessig in a cyberlaw clinic are also things that could not happen if classes were larger. Where else can you get the chief privacy officer of facebook, the founder of a thriving internet company or a partner at Sequoia Capital to share his experience with a group of 10 LLM students? Even though the class is small, and in terms of fun and networking a large class is better, I have made good friends among the JDs, people doing PHDs and some from other schools (MBA, MD, etc.). One of my best friends went to HLS and in terms of networking among LLMs, HLS has probably the best and most important network amongst top international lawyers. I suggest that you focus on the program and on the professors when making a decision. Do some research. In terms of quality of life, I love California, SFO is my favorite US city, but Boston is also amazing (despite having the Red Sox -I'm a Yankee fan-). Good luck making choices. You can't go wrong with anyone.

Hey guys,

My two cents.. I was admitted to both HLS and SLS last year. I decided to come to SLS because of my strong interest in IP/IT Law. I think I made the right call. I had the opportunity to visit HLS before deciding. The school is great, the library even better. In terms of people, Jeanne Tai from HLS is wonderfully nice but so is Krista and Roland from SLS's LST LLM. HLS's library is THE largest in the country. No questions asked. However, I really don't think it makes a difference, since most publications are available online or through interlibrary loans. If you absolutely need any publication from ANYWHERE in the world, almost all of the top law schools will get it for you. SLS has a highly entrepreneurial spirit. I'm actually thinking of doing an MBA now and sillicon valley is a way of life that you will not experience anywhere else, regardless of what people say. If technology is your thing there is nothing like the bay area. If you want to work in the U.S. after graduating, consider whther you would like to work on the east or west coast. SLS has an office of career services dedicated to aiding LLM students. This said, California law firms are more reluctant to hire LLMs than NY ones. NY firms would like both SLS and HLS alumni, but being closer to NY, HLS alumni will probably find it easier to interview with NY and east coast firms. I did not fully review HLS IP curriculum, but I can assume that SLS may offer more, since IP and Technology is in the mind of every professor here, not only those devoted to IP. By the way, at least 3 of the nation's top IP professors are at SLS. Despite being a securities lawyer, Joe Grundfest's Venture Capital course is one of the best I have seen. Having the opportunity of engaging in discussions of patent law with Mark Lemley or being personally known by Paul Goldstein, or aiding Larry Lessig in a cyberlaw clinic are also things that could not happen if classes were larger. Where else can you get the chief privacy officer of facebook, the founder of a thriving internet company or a partner at Sequoia Capital to share his experience with a group of 10 LLM students? Even though the class is small, and in terms of fun and networking a large class is better, I have made good friends among the JDs, people doing PHDs and some from other schools (MBA, MD, etc.). One of my best friends went to HLS and in terms of networking among LLMs, HLS has probably the best and most important network amongst top international lawyers. I suggest that you focus on the program and on the professors when making a decision. Do some research. In terms of quality of life, I love California, SFO is my favorite US city, but Boston is also amazing (despite having the Red Sox -I'm a Yankee fan-). Good luck making choices. You can't go wrong with anyone.
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black

Reading the last two posts, I must clarify that I mentioned, among other reasons which made me choose Stanford, the library because it is a truly nice environment to study. The point was not to rank it vs. Harvard, and make books and chairs the key decision factor. and I agree that any source is nowadays accessible online or through inter-library loans.

Reading the last two posts, I must clarify that I mentioned, among other reasons which made me choose Stanford, the library because it is a truly nice environment to study. The point was not to rank it vs. Harvard, and make books and chairs the key decision factor. and I agree that any source is nowadays accessible online or through inter-library loans.
quote

HLS decisions are out. After few nights thinking about it, I will most probably turn HLS down for SLS... Is anyone else in the same situation???

HLS decisions are out. After few nights thinking about it, I will most probably turn HLS down for SLS... Is anyone else in the same situation???
quote
armand

Thanks to everyone who have shared their thoughts about HLS v. SLS!

I have previously been admitted to Harvard and just got the admittance e-mail from the IP LL.M. program at Stanford. It's a damn hard decision!

On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS. On the other hand, I would prefer living close to a large city like Boston, I think I would really appreciate the possibilities to go to theaters, concerts, etc. I also have to say that I prefer a larger LL.M. class, more possibilities to network and get to know people.

Then there is also the superargument, as Sting83 put it in another thread, for Harvard its international reputation. I know that Stanford, like Harvard, has a very good reputation in the US. However, Im planning to return to Western Europe after my LL.M, and in Europe the sad fact is that Stanford is not nearly as well-known as Harvard. In fact, many of my friends from law school are very surprised when I tell them that Stanford belongs to the same league as Harvard. I know that it's a bit superficial, but I have to admit that Im interested in the reputation or status of the School I attend. As a bottom line, I think the name Harvard opens more doors in Europe than the name Stanford does.

To sum it up, In Stanford the classes would most likely be better in my main field of interest, however, the other factors weight in favor of Harvard. It will be a damn hard decision and I will have to do some hard thinking over the next weeks. Ok, had to get this of my chest

Btw, Brazilian LLM, could you perhaps tell me what tipped the scales in favor for Stanford for you?

Thanks to everyone who have shared their thoughts about HLS v. SLS!

I have previously been admitted to Harvard and just got the admittance e-mail from the IP LL.M. program at Stanford. It's a damn hard decision!

On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS. On the other hand, I would prefer living close to a large city like Boston, I think I would really appreciate the possibilities to go to theaters, concerts, etc. I also have to say that I prefer a larger LL.M. class, more possibilities to network and get to know people.

Then there is also the “superargument”, as Sting83 put it in another thread, for Harvard – its international reputation. I know that Stanford, like Harvard, has a very good reputation in the US. However, I’m planning to return to Western Europe after my LL.M, and in Europe the sad fact is that Stanford is not nearly as well-known as Harvard. In fact, many of my friends from law school are very surprised when I tell them that Stanford belongs to the same league as Harvard. I know that it's a bit superficial, but I have to admit that I’m interested in the reputation or status of the School I attend. As a bottom line, I think the name Harvard opens more doors in Europe than the name Stanford does.

To sum it up, In Stanford the classes would most likely be better in my main field of interest, however, the other factors weight in favor of Harvard. It will be a damn hard decision and I will have to do some hard thinking over the next weeks. Ok, had to get this of my chest…

Btw, Brazilian LLM, could you perhaps tell me what tipped the scales in favor for Stanford for you?
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Bayer04

The same thing is true with Yale in Europe I think. For many people, Yale is not as well-known as Harvard. So, your point is perfectly understandable.

However, I would rather go to Yale than to Harvard, since Yale is the best law school in my area of research and I tend to prefer small programs. So if I had been in the same situation, I would have chosen Stanford over Harvard but both are top choices!

Good luck with your decision!


The same thing is true with Yale in Europe I think. For many people, Yale is not as well-known as Harvard. So, your point is perfectly understandable.

However, I would rather go to Yale than to Harvard, since Yale is the best law school in my area of research and I tend to prefer small programs. So if I had been in the same situation, I would have chosen Stanford over Harvard but both are top choices!

Good luck with your decision!
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Busingye

your mind is already made up i think:-) LOL

your mind is already made up i think:-) LOL
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asdi

My humble opinion is that Stanford Law School, together with YLS, is becoming a really exclusive institution. SLS only accepts 35 advanced degree students per year, so it is a real challenge and honor to be accepted there. In this light, I would prefer to be part of an "elite" group of students.

My humble opinion is that Stanford Law School, together with YLS, is becoming a really exclusive institution. SLS only accepts 35 advanced degree students per year, so it is a real challenge and honor to be accepted there. In this light, I would prefer to be part of an "elite" group of students.

quote
ivan2006

Thanks to everyone who have shared their thoughts about HLS v. SLS!

I have previously been admitted to Harvard and just got the admittance e-mail from the IP LL.M. program at Stanford. It's a damn hard decision!

On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS. On the other hand, I would prefer living close to a large city like Boston, I think I would really appreciate the possibilities to go to theaters, concerts, etc. I also have to say that I prefer a larger LL.M. class, more possibilities to network and get to know people.

Then there is also the superargument, as Sting83 put it in another thread, for Harvard its international reputation. I know that Stanford, like Harvard, has a very good reputation in the US. However, Im planning to return to Western Europe after my LL.M, and in Europe the sad fact is that Stanford is not nearly as well-known as Harvard. In fact, many of my friends from law school are very surprised when I tell them that Stanford belongs to the same league as Harvard. I know that it's a bit superficial, but I have to admit that Im interested in the reputation or status of the School I attend. As a bottom line, I think the name Harvard opens more doors in Europe than the name Stanford does.

To sum it up, In Stanford the classes would most likely be better in my main field of interest, however, the other factors weight in favor of Harvard. It will be a damn hard decision and I will have to do some hard thinking over the next weeks. Ok, had to get this of my chest

Btw, Brazilian LLM, could you perhaps tell me what tipped the scales in favor for Stanford for you?


Being able to choose between SLS and HLS is a sweet dilemma. However, I think specialization does matter, and Stanford is undisputably #1 in IP Law. Being a Western European myself, I understand you when you mention the "Harvard aura". It is a brand so powerful that even the illiterate know it. In any case, I am positively sure that among lawyers Stanford is second to none. Take this forum as an example: everybody knows and admires SLS.

P.D. Have you tried to get in touch with Bitsou? Maybe he could help you.

<blockquote>Thanks to everyone who have shared their thoughts about HLS v. SLS!

I have previously been admitted to Harvard and just got the admittance e-mail from the IP LL.M. program at Stanford. It's a damn hard decision!

On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS. On the other hand, I would prefer living close to a large city like Boston, I think I would really appreciate the possibilities to go to theaters, concerts, etc. I also have to say that I prefer a larger LL.M. class, more possibilities to network and get to know people.

Then there is also the “superargument”, as Sting83 put it in another thread, for Harvard – its international reputation. I know that Stanford, like Harvard, has a very good reputation in the US. However, I’m planning to return to Western Europe after my LL.M, and in Europe the sad fact is that Stanford is not nearly as well-known as Harvard. In fact, many of my friends from law school are very surprised when I tell them that Stanford belongs to the same league as Harvard. I know that it's a bit superficial, but I have to admit that I’m interested in the reputation or status of the School I attend. As a bottom line, I think the name Harvard opens more doors in Europe than the name Stanford does.

To sum it up, In Stanford the classes would most likely be better in my main field of interest, however, the other factors weight in favor of Harvard. It will be a damn hard decision and I will have to do some hard thinking over the next weeks. Ok, had to get this of my chest…

Btw, Brazilian LLM, could you perhaps tell me what tipped the scales in favor for Stanford for you?
</blockquote>

Being able to choose between SLS and HLS is a sweet dilemma. However, I think specialization does matter, and Stanford is undisputably #1 in IP Law. Being a Western European myself, I understand you when you mention the "Harvard aura". It is a brand so powerful that even the illiterate know it. In any case, I am positively sure that among lawyers Stanford is second to none. Take this forum as an example: everybody knows and admires SLS.

P.D. Have you tried to get in touch with Bitsou? Maybe he could help you.
quote
ricey

Nice dilemma to be in. But I'd go for SLS when it comes to IP. Harvard may have the international brand, but in the legal circles, especially in the IP Law community, SLS is top notch.

Nice dilemma to be in. But I'd go for SLS when it comes to IP. Harvard may have the international brand, but in the legal circles, especially in the IP Law community, SLS is top notch.
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josepidal

On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS.

Just want to throw one thing in for consideration. Remember that an LLM is for only one year so you only take about three subjects per term. You won't want all of them to be on your chosen field, since an LLM is not just a technical experience, it's for you to gain advanced knowledge in your field while gaining exposure to a whole new environment and to enjoy dabbling in other things.

I'm from HLS but know nothing about its IP classes (though I've also heard SLS is really great in IP), but I thought you shouldn't forget why there is value to the school's general reputation in addition to its reputation in a specific field.

<blockquote>On one hand my main are of interest is IP law where Stanford clearly is better than HLS. </blockquote>
Just want to throw one thing in for consideration. Remember that an LLM is for only one year so you only take about three subjects per term. You won't want all of them to be on your chosen field, since an LLM is not just a technical experience, it's for you to gain advanced knowledge in your field while gaining exposure to a whole new environment and to enjoy dabbling in other things.

I'm from HLS but know nothing about its IP classes (though I've also heard SLS is really great in IP), but I thought you shouldn't forget why there is value to the school's general reputation in addition to its reputation in a specific field.
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junior1891

Mostly

Mostly
quote
black

Welcome on board Junior1891. You will be even more in love with Stanford when you get here.
To Armand, it seems your mind is set for Harvard. I would just observe that, in my opinion, an LLM is sthing you offer to yourself and not mostly to impress others. If I was an IP person, I would go for the best IP school in order to satisfy my interests first. As to Stanford's reputation, there is no need to worry. It is labelled "very exclusive elite" and maybe that s even better than Harvard.

Welcome on board Junior1891. You will be even more in love with Stanford when you get here.
To Armand, it seems your mind is set for Harvard. I would just observe that, in my opinion, an LLM is sthing you offer to yourself and not mostly to impress others. If I was an IP person, I would go for the best IP school in order to satisfy my interests first. As to Stanford's reputation, there is no need to worry. It is labelled "very exclusive elite" and maybe that s even better than Harvard.
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josepidal

With Stanford, you get 10% less prestige but you also get much less of the kind of counter-reaction of the type "Harvard is overrated or a ratings whore." My brother was 3 years at Harvard. He said Harvard is like a celebrity - it attracts some very unattractive weird personality types more than anywhere he has been.
East Coast vs West Coast: From what I heard the old East coast including east coast schools have a different feel. They consider themselves more European, more snobby, more sophisticated & more worldly compared to west coast (more laid back, Hollywood, blonde airheads etc). Conversely the west thinks the easterners are completely full of it + west now has silicon valley etc.

I don't want to argue preferences because HLS and SLS are two extremely prestigious nationally ranked schools in two very different cities. However, I haven't exactly met that many stuffy, snobby or overly weird (maybe eccentric in the slightly geeky, very intellectual way) types, and there are a lot of HLS people from California who want to work in California.

HLS and Harvard undergrad, if that's where your brother went, don't have identical student body personalities.

<blockquote>With Stanford, you get 10% less prestige but you also get much less of the kind of counter-reaction of the type "Harvard is overrated or a ratings whore." My brother was 3 years at Harvard. He said Harvard is like a celebrity - it attracts some very unattractive weird personality types more than anywhere he has been.
East Coast vs West Coast: From what I heard the old East coast including east coast schools have a different feel. They consider themselves more European, more snobby, more sophisticated & more worldly compared to west coast (more laid back, Hollywood, blonde airheads etc). Conversely the west thinks the easterners are completely full of it + west now has silicon valley etc.
</blockquote>
I don't want to argue preferences because HLS and SLS are two extremely prestigious nationally ranked schools in two very different cities. However, I haven't exactly met that many stuffy, snobby or overly weird (maybe eccentric in the slightly geeky, very intellectual way) types, and there are a lot of HLS people from California who want to work in California.

HLS and Harvard undergrad, if that's where your brother went, don't have identical student body personalities.
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junior1891

dt.

dt.
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armand

Does anybody have a rough idea about the average age of the LL.M. students at SLS and HLS? As a guess I would say that the guys at SLS are somewhat older (due to the working experience requirement) but this is really only a off the cuff guess.

Thanks!

Does anybody have a rough idea about the average age of the LL.M. students at SLS and HLS? As a guess I would say that the guys at SLS are somewhat older (due to the working experience requirement) but this is really only a off the cuff guess.

Thanks!
quote
josepidal

Junior: As I said, you're talking about two different cities. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. For example, my Puerto Rican classmate was so thrilled that it was snowing nicely on her birthday in January that she e-mailed everyone to come out to the ice skating rink for her party.

Regarding weirdos, I imagine there'd be weirdos in HLS simply by virtue of size. However, I don't think anyone should make considerations based on the outliers in the student body. I've made friends in MIT and they joke about everyone being an eccentric egghead in a positive way, but it's not like every MIT grad student I've met was out to steal my kidneys for experiments.

Armand: For HLS, perception on average age is late twenties, with the Europeans tending to have a younger median age due to lack of undergrad.

Junior: As I said, you're talking about two different cities. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. For example, my Puerto Rican classmate was so thrilled that it was snowing nicely on her birthday in January that she e-mailed everyone to come out to the ice skating rink for her party.

Regarding weirdos, I imagine there'd be weirdos in HLS simply by virtue of size. However, I don't think anyone should make considerations based on the outliers in the student body. I've made friends in MIT and they joke about everyone being an eccentric egghead in a positive way, but it's not like every MIT grad student I've met was out to steal my kidneys for experiments.

Armand: For HLS, perception on average age is late twenties, with the Europeans tending to have a younger median age due to lack of undergrad.
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franz75

But how about employment opportunities? I've heard that it is difficult to get jobs in California - even for SLS grads - whereas it seems easier for HLS grads to get hired by NY law firms. I am from Germany and I'd like to work in California but it seems that the East Coast would be a better option.

But how about employment opportunities? I've heard that it is difficult to get jobs in California - even for SLS grads - whereas it seems easier for HLS grads to get hired by NY law firms. I am from Germany and I'd like to work in California but it seems that the East Coast would be a better option.
quote
marina81

Hi,

I am currently an LLM Student at Stanford (I was also admitted to HLS last year) and I confess that your question about employment opportunities left me feeling somewhat perplexed.

1) Stanford participates in the Columbia Job Fair held in New York City at the end of January of each year (in cooperation with Yale, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago, University of Michigan and University of Virginia). In addition, a very large number of international law firms interview Stanford students on-campus at the beginning of the year and later. So if want to find a job in New York, this Job Fair and/or these on-campus interviews are an excellent opportunity to meet prospective employers based in NYC. If you want to work in New York and have call back interviews, a representative of the firm will contact you and arrange a date for an interview at the New York law office. The firm will cover traveling expenses to New York and hotel accommodation. You can schedule several interviews on consecutive days or two interviews in one day if you want. You may also schedule interviews during winter break, spring break, etc. A very large number of Stanford alumni are working in New York and many Stanford LLM students this year have accepted offers in New York City at the end of the year (For example, I have accepted an offer from the NY Office of a top American law firm top 10 in the Vault ranking - and will be there in September).

2) Stanford also participates in the new "West Coast LL.M. Job Fair" to be held this year on Friday, April 13 in Los Angeles (in cooperation with UCLA, Berkeley and many other West Coast law schools). So, if you are also interested in working in California, this Job Fair is a terrific opportunity to meet prospective employers in California. Several LLM students from Stanford have already received offers from local offices of international law firms this year (for example, one girl from Europe will work for Skadden Arps Palo Alto as a permanent associate at the end of the year).

In addition to this, I would like to recall that Sullivan & Cromwell, Skadden Arps, Davis Polk, Simpson Thacher, etc, etc. have an office in Palo Alto! (Palo Alto is home to Stanford University but also to Silicon Valley and many multi-million dollar computer companies). As a result, Stanford students are often invited by these local offices for interviews, barbecues, etc. Please note that most of the top American law firms also have offices in San Francisco and/or Los Angeles. It is also important, I think, to recall that California has by far the largest population and the largest Gross State Product in the US.

Last but not least, the LLM Program at Stanford is unique in its small size (with Yale) and its definitely a huge advantage in the job market.

By the way, I know many Stanford LLM working in NYC but Ive never about Harvard LLM working in California In my humble opinion, Stanford gives you the opportunity to land a job either in New York or California

Hi,

I am currently an LLM Student at Stanford (I was also admitted to HLS last year) and I confess that your question about employment opportunities left me feeling somewhat perplexed.

1) Stanford participates in the Columbia Job Fair held in New York City at the end of January of each year (in cooperation with Yale, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago, University of Michigan and University of Virginia). In addition, a very large number of international law firms interview Stanford students on-campus at the beginning of the year and later. So if want to find a job in New York, this Job Fair and/or these on-campus interviews are an excellent opportunity to meet prospective employers based in NYC. If you want to work in New York and have call back interviews, a representative of the firm will contact you and arrange a date for an interview at the New York law office. The firm will cover traveling expenses to New York and hotel accommodation. You can schedule several interviews on consecutive days or two interviews in one day if you want. You may also schedule interviews during winter break, spring break, etc. A very large number of Stanford alumni are working in New York and many Stanford LLM students this year have accepted offers in New York City at the end of the year (For example, I have accepted an offer from the NY Office of a top American law firm – top 10 in the Vault ranking - and will be there in September).

2) Stanford also participates in the new "West Coast LL.M. Job Fair" to be held this year on Friday, April 13 in Los Angeles (in cooperation with UCLA, Berkeley and many other West Coast law schools). So, if you are also interested in working in California, this Job Fair is a terrific opportunity to meet prospective employers in California. Several LLM students from Stanford have already received offers from local offices of international law firms this year (for example, one girl from Europe will work for Skadden Arps Palo Alto as a permanent associate at the end of the year).

In addition to this, I would like to recall that Sullivan & Cromwell, Skadden Arps, Davis Polk, Simpson Thacher, etc, etc. have an office in Palo Alto! (Palo Alto is home to Stanford University but also to Silicon Valley and many multi-million dollar computer companies). As a result, Stanford students are often invited by these local offices for interviews, barbecues, etc. Please note that most of the top American law firms also have offices in San Francisco and/or Los Angeles. It is also important, I think, to recall that California has by far the largest population and the largest Gross State Product in the US.

Last but not least, the LLM Program at Stanford is unique in its small size (with Yale) and it’s definitely a huge advantage in the job market.

By the way, I know many Stanford LLM working in NYC… but I’ve never about Harvard LLM working in California… In my humble opinion, Stanford gives you the opportunity to land a job either in New York or California…
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