question about Harvard early decision


legalgirl

Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.

Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.
quote
MAB79

I disagree! Either HLS thinks that you are worth an offer or don't. If they will reject you upon asking for an expedite decision, they would also have rejected you in the normal track!

I disagree! Either HLS thinks that you are worth an offer or don't. If they will reject you upon asking for an expedite decision, they would also have rejected you in the normal track!
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lextra

Depends on whether waiting for HLS will cause you to miss a deadline for acceptance by one of the other schools. If yes, may be worth sending the letters confirming this and asking for an expedited decision. If not, I would advise strongly against pushing them. Unless you have a deadline you will miss through waiting for late march, you don't need an expedited decision as far as they're concerned. Not worth annoying them unnecessarily.

Depends on whether waiting for HLS will cause you to miss a deadline for acceptance by one of the other schools. If yes, may be worth sending the letters confirming this and asking for an expedited decision. If not, I would advise strongly against pushing them. Unless you have a deadline you will miss through waiting for late march, you don't need an expedited decision as far as they're concerned. Not worth annoying them unnecessarily.
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jsd

I second that.

I second that.
quote

Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.


I think it depends, if you get a full ride at any of your other choices, it would be prudent to send them an inquiry so you can make a decesion.
@lextra, are you from the UK? Is Harvard your first choice?

<blockquote>Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.</blockquote>

I think it depends, if you get a full ride at any of your other choices, it would be prudent to send them an inquiry so you can make a decesion.
@lextra, are you from the UK? Is Harvard your first choice?
quote
legalgirl

no, im not from uk, and harvard is my first rank.

no, im not from uk, and harvard is my first rank.
quote
MAB79

Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.


I think it depends, if you get a full ride at any of your other choices, it would be prudent to send them an inquiry so you can make a decesion.
@lextra, are you from the UK? Is Harvard your first choice?

I support that.

I do not think that they would feel stressed if you ask them for an expedite review. They explicitly state that. If they think you are good enough for Harvard, they will not reject you. You just should support your question with some prove, so they can see that good schools have offered you a place in their program. They are not that ignorant or arrogant! IN fact they are aware of these problems and surely do not want that you lose a place in another school just because you have to wait for a possible acceptance of Harvard!

<blockquote><blockquote>Hi there,
Many of us are accepted in excellent law schools such as Upenn, Cornell, Columbia or NW, but still waiting for the asnwer of Harvad(king of kings!),
a friend of me adviced me not to contact Harvard Law school and not to ask them accelerate the process of reviewing my application. He believes, If I ask them for more speed, they may ignore a portion of my chance.(since they only offer me admission on the behalf of my file, but if they finish reveiwing all files, they may choose ones they reject in the early decision)
do you agree or disagree.</blockquote>

I think it depends, if you get a full ride at any of your other choices, it would be prudent to send them an inquiry so you can make a decesion.
@lextra, are you from the UK? Is Harvard your first choice? </blockquote>
I support that.

I do not think that they would feel stressed if you ask them for an expedite review. They explicitly state that. If they think you are good enough for Harvard, they will not reject you. You just should support your question with some prove, so they can see that good schools have offered you a place in their program. They are not that ignorant or arrogant! IN fact they are aware of these problems and surely do not want that you lose a place in another school just because you have to wait for a possible acceptance of Harvard!
quote
supranote1

It's a delicate situation to call and ask. Yes, it's true that they say that they will try to accommodate you if you have a deadline, but you never know if that's really the case.

The same issue can be said for clerkships. What if you have a situation where you were asked to contact chambers to schedule an interview in late February/early March and there's the possibility that you could receive an exploding offer when you meet the judge (only to find out a week or two later that you may not be able to accept the position because of an admissions decision). How would you suggest handling that? Does it warrant a phone call to HLS to ask for expedited consideration before you schedule the interview? After you schedule it? Not at all? Part of me feels like the answer HLS would give is "you need to decide what's more important to you" and would decline issuing a decision on your application early. Thoughts?

It's a delicate situation to call and ask. Yes, it's true that they say that they will try to accommodate you if you have a deadline, but you never know if that's really the case.

The same issue can be said for clerkships. What if you have a situation where you were asked to contact chambers to schedule an interview in late February/early March and there's the possibility that you could receive an exploding offer when you meet the judge (only to find out a week or two later that you may not be able to accept the position because of an admissions decision). How would you suggest handling that? Does it warrant a phone call to HLS to ask for expedited consideration before you schedule the interview? After you schedule it? Not at all? Part of me feels like the answer HLS would give is "you need to decide what's more important to you" and would decline issuing a decision on your application early. Thoughts?
quote
lextra

supra, I'd be inclined to agree. Having said this, I am not sure how prestigious clerkships are in the US (you are in the US, correct?) and this may have some bearing on it.

If you had already received an offer I think this might warrant an expedited decision (but is a clerkship so prestigious that turning it down would be unwise?); however, an interview alone might not be enough. I think you need to back up an expedited decision request with evidence that you're definitely going to suffer some sort of detriment if you don't receive an early decision. But I don't know so much about clerkships so this is just speculation :)

@Econ rights, yes, I am from the UK, and yes, HLS is my first choice, although I don't expect to get in. HLS is my long shot and Chicago or Columbia are more realistic, probably.

supra, I'd be inclined to agree. Having said this, I am not sure how prestigious clerkships are in the US (you are in the US, correct?) and this may have some bearing on it.

If you had already received an offer I think this might warrant an expedited decision (but is a clerkship so prestigious that turning it down would be unwise?); however, an interview alone might not be enough. I think you need to back up an expedited decision request with evidence that you're definitely going to suffer some sort of detriment if you don't receive an early decision. But I don't know so much about clerkships so this is just speculation :)

@Econ rights, yes, I am from the UK, and yes, HLS is my first choice, although I don't expect to get in. HLS is my long shot and Chicago or Columbia are more realistic, probably.
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darya

I wonder if it might be correct to say that harvard is long shot while chicago is more realistic for anyone at all, speaking generally, since harvard takes in 150 or more of the say 1200-1500 applicants, while chicago has a class size of 50 or more taken in from (more than) 700 applicants.

I guess what im trying to say is, harvard takes in 3 times as many from only 2 times as many applicants compared to chicago.

Feel free to correct this---I absolutely have no point of reference except this seemingly obvious comparison. But one thing we know for sure is, this whole process is anything but obvious or straightforward so please feel free to correct this. I am merely entertaining myself with these thoughts as the wait is getting me really nervous haha.

I wonder if it might be correct to say that harvard is long shot while chicago is more realistic for anyone at all, speaking generally, since harvard takes in 150 or more of the say 1200-1500 applicants, while chicago has a class size of 50 or more taken in from (more than) 700 applicants.

I guess what im trying to say is, harvard takes in 3 times as many from only 2 times as many applicants compared to chicago.

Feel free to correct this---I absolutely have no point of reference except this seemingly obvious comparison. But one thing we know for sure is, this whole process is anything but obvious or straightforward so please feel free to correct this. I am merely entertaining myself with these thoughts as the wait is getting me really nervous haha.
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hopeful3

Yeah I don't totally understand the relevance of the clerk job??!! I think all of us would really really like to know if we will be accepted for an LLM so that we can decide whether we stay in our current positions or apply for other jobs!! I don't think to be honest, that Harvard etc will be interested in this....(sorry its just my opinion)... I am currently working at one of the International institutions and I am also applying for other high profile jobs in case I dont get accepted in any of the LLM's but I would not even think of telling this to Harvard-asking them for a decision so I can decide to go to ajob interview...BUT like someone else mentioned on this thread maybe where you are based it is extremly prestigious etc etc

I hope this helps!!

Yeah I don't totally understand the relevance of the clerk job??!! I think all of us would really really like to know if we will be accepted for an LLM so that we can decide whether we stay in our current positions or apply for other jobs!! I don't think to be honest, that Harvard etc will be interested in this....(sorry its just my opinion)... I am currently working at one of the International institutions and I am also applying for other high profile jobs in case I dont get accepted in any of the LLM's but I would not even think of telling this to Harvard-asking them for a decision so I can decide to go to ajob interview...BUT like someone else mentioned on this thread maybe where you are based it is extremly prestigious etc etc

I hope this helps!!
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MAB79

I wonder if it might be correct to say that harvard is long shot while chicago is more realistic for anyone at all, speaking generally, since harvard takes in 150 or more of the say 1200-1500 applicants, while chicago has a class size of 50 or more taken in from (more than) 700 applicants.

I guess what im trying to say is, harvard takes in 3 times as many from only 2 times as many applicants compared to chicago.

Feel free to correct this---I absolutely have no point of reference except this seemingly obvious comparison. But one thing we know for sure is, this whole process is anything but obvious or straightforward so please feel free to correct this. I am merely entertaining myself with these thoughts as the wait is getting me really nervous haha.



Absolutely!!! I mean in the end, we get accepted or not. We will not see through the process. I know of candidates everyone would say they are a sure Yale, HLS or CLS candidate but have been turned down, while other candidates I know have been accepted, altough compared to the (at least) academic credential of the first candidates fall way behind (freinds of mine: one ranked 1st/100, phd etc.the other ranked 15th/50. First one was not accepted by HLS but CLS, while the 2nd was accepted to HLS and turned down by CLS in the same year!)

<blockquote>I wonder if it might be correct to say that harvard is long shot while chicago is more realistic for anyone at all, speaking generally, since harvard takes in 150 or more of the say 1200-1500 applicants, while chicago has a class size of 50 or more taken in from (more than) 700 applicants.

I guess what im trying to say is, harvard takes in 3 times as many from only 2 times as many applicants compared to chicago.

Feel free to correct this---I absolutely have no point of reference except this seemingly obvious comparison. But one thing we know for sure is, this whole process is anything but obvious or straightforward so please feel free to correct this. I am merely entertaining myself with these thoughts as the wait is getting me really nervous haha.</blockquote>


Absolutely!!! I mean in the end, we get accepted or not. We will not see through the process. I know of candidates everyone would say they are a sure Yale, HLS or CLS candidate but have been turned down, while other candidates I know have been accepted, altough compared to the (at least) academic credential of the first candidates fall way behind (freinds of mine: one ranked 1st/100, phd etc.the other ranked 15th/50. First one was not accepted by HLS but CLS, while the 2nd was accepted to HLS and turned down by CLS in the same year!)
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supranote1

To answer your questions about clerkships in the US, they are prestigious in the federal system. Of course, appellate clerkships at the circuit level are more prestigious than trial courts at the district court level. It is usually in poor taste to decline a clerkship offer unless an extreme situation warrants it. If you have a clerkship interview and are extended an offer during the interview, it is difficult to delay a decision as it is expected that you will accept the offer on the spot, otherwise you would not be there in the first place wasting everyone's time. Some people "game" the system (as do judges) and schedule interviews based on their ranked preferences. The earlier one interviews with their #1 choice, the more likely an offer/acceptance will occur. The particular court with which I would be scheduling the interview is relatively prestigious, but it is not the Supreme Court of the United States. An interview with a justice there would probably warrant contacting admissions offices, to be honest.

That said, it is a tough call, and I am hesitant to broach the subject with the admissions office. I appreciate the perspectives.

To answer your questions about clerkships in the US, they are prestigious in the federal system. Of course, appellate clerkships at the circuit level are more prestigious than trial courts at the district court level. It is usually in poor taste to decline a clerkship offer unless an extreme situation warrants it. If you have a clerkship interview and are extended an offer during the interview, it is difficult to delay a decision as it is expected that you will accept the offer on the spot, otherwise you would not be there in the first place wasting everyone's time. Some people "game" the system (as do judges) and schedule interviews based on their ranked preferences. The earlier one interviews with their #1 choice, the more likely an offer/acceptance will occur. The particular court with which I would be scheduling the interview is relatively prestigious, but it is not the Supreme Court of the United States. An interview with a justice there would probably warrant contacting admissions offices, to be honest.

That said, it is a tough call, and I am hesitant to broach the subject with the admissions office. I appreciate the perspectives.
quote
MAB79

To answer your questions about clerkships in the US, they are prestigious in the federal system. Of course, appellate clerkships at the circuit level are more prestigious than trial courts at the district court level. It is usually in poor taste to decline a clerkship offer unless an extreme situation warrants it. If you have a clerkship interview and are extended an offer during the interview, it is difficult to delay a decision as it is expected that you will accept the offer on the spot, otherwise you would not be there in the first place wasting everyone's time. Some people "game" the system (as do judges) and schedule interviews based on their ranked preferences. The earlier one interviews with their #1 choice, the more likely an offer/acceptance will occur. The particular court with which I would be scheduling the interview is relatively prestigious, but it is not the Supreme Court of the United States. An interview with a justice there would probably warrant contacting admissions offices, to be honest.

That said, it is a tough call, and I am hesitant to broach the subject with the admissions office. I appreciate the perspectives.


That's interesting...in Switzerland it is very easy to get a clerkship, because as a trainee who wants to be admitted to the bar exam, you have to be entitled to a clerkship!

<blockquote>To answer your questions about clerkships in the US, they are prestigious in the federal system. Of course, appellate clerkships at the circuit level are more prestigious than trial courts at the district court level. It is usually in poor taste to decline a clerkship offer unless an extreme situation warrants it. If you have a clerkship interview and are extended an offer during the interview, it is difficult to delay a decision as it is expected that you will accept the offer on the spot, otherwise you would not be there in the first place wasting everyone's time. Some people "game" the system (as do judges) and schedule interviews based on their ranked preferences. The earlier one interviews with their #1 choice, the more likely an offer/acceptance will occur. The particular court with which I would be scheduling the interview is relatively prestigious, but it is not the Supreme Court of the United States. An interview with a justice there would probably warrant contacting admissions offices, to be honest.

That said, it is a tough call, and I am hesitant to broach the subject with the admissions office. I appreciate the perspectives.</blockquote>

That's interesting...in Switzerland it is very easy to get a clerkship, because as a trainee who wants to be admitted to the bar exam, you have to be entitled to a clerkship!
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hopeful3

Yes it is!! I think I personally underestimated the significance of this in your decision making process- so would you say it is equally as hard to get accepted into Harvard as it is to secure this clerkship? If that is the case, maybe you would ´consider taking the clerkship if offered it this year, and going to Harvard the following year- if it gets to the stage where you have to make the choice??!! Indeed, it sounds as though it would be a significant accomplishment which would enable you to get accepted the following year as well (assuming you also get accepted this year!!)

Yes it is!! I think I personally underestimated the significance of this in your decision making process- so would you say it is equally as hard to get accepted into Harvard as it is to secure this clerkship? If that is the case, maybe you would ´consider taking the clerkship if offered it this year, and going to Harvard the following year- if it gets to the stage where you have to make the choice??!! Indeed, it sounds as though it would be a significant accomplishment which would enable you to get accepted the following year as well (assuming you also get accepted this year!!)
quote
supranote1

Yes it is!! I think I personally underestimated the significance of this in your decision making process- so would you say it is equally as hard to get accepted into Harvard as it is to secure this clerkship? If that is the case, maybe you would ´consider taking the clerkship if offered it this year, and going to Harvard the following year- if it gets to the stage where you have to make the choice??!! Indeed, it sounds as though it would be a significant accomplishment which would enable you to get accepted the following year as well (assuming you also get accepted this year!!)


Clerkships are very hard to secure in the United States. In normal economic times, they are very competitive. Today, with law firms laying off attorneys, salary freezes and changes in compensation structures, and more people graduating from law school than ever before, clerkship competition has increased exponentially. Whereas hundreds may have previously applied for 1 spot, now thousands of people apply, and the hiring process is very opaque. In many respects, it is akin to an admissions program, except that each judge is looking for something different depending upon his/her preferences. Sometimes your application is not even read. While that is also possible in law school admissions offices, it is not as likely (because admissions offices are staffed to handle an influx in applications; judicial chambers are typically not).

In essence, I have been investigating clerkship opportunities for 2011-2012. At the same time, I have a potential opportunity to compete for a position this year, and, pursuant to the judge's previous statements about an opening, I must convey my renewed interest sooner rather than later because the position will be filled. The admissions decision I receive in March (or sooner) will determine how I proceed.

So, yes, it's basically similar to a previous poster, who mentioned balancing job opportunities with the uncertainty of admission. Clerkships in the US are not essential to establish a career. They are more akin to stepping stones. Depending on the judge and the court, clerking can provide great experience that will benefit you in a) private practice, b) government service, c) academia.

Also, it is my understanding that obtaining a deferral is extremely difficult at HLS and that you may have to reapply the following year. Since I have been waiting 4 years to apply to this program, I am a bit wary about contemplating a deferral....

<blockquote>Yes it is!! I think I personally underestimated the significance of this in your decision making process- so would you say it is equally as hard to get accepted into Harvard as it is to secure this clerkship? If that is the case, maybe you would ´consider taking the clerkship if offered it this year, and going to Harvard the following year- if it gets to the stage where you have to make the choice??!! Indeed, it sounds as though it would be a significant accomplishment which would enable you to get accepted the following year as well (assuming you also get accepted this year!!) </blockquote>

Clerkships are very hard to secure in the United States. In normal economic times, they are very competitive. Today, with law firms laying off attorneys, salary freezes and changes in compensation structures, and more people graduating from law school than ever before, clerkship competition has increased exponentially. Whereas hundreds may have previously applied for 1 spot, now thousands of people apply, and the hiring process is very opaque. In many respects, it is akin to an admissions program, except that each judge is looking for something different depending upon his/her preferences. Sometimes your application is not even read. While that is also possible in law school admissions offices, it is not as likely (because admissions offices are staffed to handle an influx in applications; judicial chambers are typically not).

In essence, I have been investigating clerkship opportunities for 2011-2012. At the same time, I have a potential opportunity to compete for a position this year, and, pursuant to the judge's previous statements about an opening, I must convey my renewed interest sooner rather than later because the position will be filled. The admissions decision I receive in March (or sooner) will determine how I proceed.

So, yes, it's basically similar to a previous poster, who mentioned balancing job opportunities with the uncertainty of admission. Clerkships in the US are not essential to establish a career. They are more akin to stepping stones. Depending on the judge and the court, clerking can provide great experience that will benefit you in a) private practice, b) government service, c) academia.

Also, it is my understanding that obtaining a deferral is extremely difficult at HLS and that you may have to reapply the following year. Since I have been waiting 4 years to apply to this program, I am a bit wary about contemplating a deferral....
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niubility

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