Hello,

I opted for a low ranked lawschool because they offered my a scholarship. That decision was shortsighted, and after seeking advice from a number of professors at the recent ASIL conference, I practically need an LLM from a top tier school. I am just starting to look at LLM programs and was wondering how competitive LLM programs are in the field of international law, at the top tier schools. There have been a number of graduates from my school who have received LLMs at schools such as NYU and Columbia in the past, but it seems to me that LLM's are on the rise, and hence becoming more competitive. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If it matters, I will have excellent recommendations from my professors, including two who recieved LLMs from NYU and Columbia. My grades, however are B's.

Thanks in advance,

SL

Just a little bump here. Hoping for a little advice, or pointer to a reference which isn't JD based. THX, SL

I'm on the same exact boat. While I, too, don't know the answer to this question, you can review responses to my earlier inquiry at http://www.llm-guide.com/board/15008. good luck to all of us

Thanks for the reply intlawdc. Good luck indeed!

Hi, I'm Matt. I don't agree with the advice that the LL.M. is a waste of time for those (like myself) who received J.D.s from subpar law schools. In fact, I'm returning to school to receive an LL.M. myself. But I do think that whether you will be successful after your LL.M. will depend on a number of factors. I decided to purse an LL.M. because I wanted to teach. Legal academia is highly competitive and unless you got your J.D. from a top-tier law school, then you are pretty much out of the running from what I was told. I was advised by several professors to get an LL.M. from the best school I could get into and to publish if I wanted to become a law professor. I also spoke with another individual, who attended my law school for her JD and then went on to NYU to get an LL.M. She is now a law professor in Texas and said the LL.M. was a critical component of her resume. Aside from that, I know other people who have received LL.M.s in tax and securities from schools like Georgetown and NYU, who are doing quite well. I think the opportunities you receive will depend on where you go and how well you do in the LL.M. program. One of my friends, who went to law school with me, later got an LL.M. in tax from Georgetown. She then clerked for the tax court and got a job with a big D.C. law firm. She did fine, but she said her boyfriend, who graduated from Georgetown's LL.M. program with honors did even better in the job market. I think your sucess with an LL.M. degree all depends. I don't think it's a waste of time depending on your goals and I think you really need to speak with as many people as you can, including people in the field in which you are interested, who, themselves, obtained LL.M.s. To me, they would be the best indicators of whether pursuing an LL.M. is worth it.

Regarding the first post...

I was at the ASIL conference too! I will graduate with a JD from a mid-ranked law school and will be purusing an LLM next year with the final goal of entering academia as a professor.

If you wish to become a law professor, you really should get a label behind you. Or, there are other ways to enter academia. You could teach a legal writing or clinic class, or teach as an adjunct professor several years in the working world. But if academia is your thing, then an LLM (or better yet a JSD) is a way to go. I haev had other professors suggest that PhD is more highly regarded then an LLM/JSD, so you may want to consider that as well. I hear that a PhD in psychology analyzing jury behavior is quite marketable if you're into that sort of thing.

Anyway, if you do decide to do the LLM thing, then I highly recommend that you get your grades UP. Bs are OK, but the more competitive schools will hardly consider you (unless you have some other outstanding attribute) bc there are so many other more well-qualified JD grads. So.... it is not too late to improve your profile. Just lock yourself in the library form now till graduation. I thikn that grades (class rank) are a very large components for admissions committees.

FYI: I find that a great way to reach a goal is to back-program. Find your dream job and then conduct informational interviews with those people to ask them how they got where they are. Do lots of these. It can help open your eyes to various avenues to reach the same goal.

Good luck!

Oh, one more thing. Assuming you want to enter academia, it may be wise to concurrently apply to LLM programs and judicial clerkships. I have heard from professors that candidates for entry-level professor jobs are at a disadvantage without a judicial clerkship behind them. Federal ones are especially hard to get, but a appellate or highest state court may work as well (though less marketable generally).

To improve your chances of a clerkship, apply early. OSCAR - the new computerized system to apply for many federal judicial clerkships - have their deadline the first week of September I believe. But you need to act earlier to get recs from profs, get resume and writing sample completed and write decent cover letters.

Depending on the court, state courts usually have later deadlines.

Good luck!

Thanks for the excellent advice tgheen -very much appreciated!

Re outstanding attributes - what constitutes such attributes? I have dual nationality and speak four languages including english, but I have a feeling that in the field of international law, such attributes are common, and in the field of academia, not necessarily so outstanding.

Of course, I'm working on the grades. Started waking up at 5:30 AM to squeeze more time into the day - makes an amazing difference.

Good luck to you too!!!

Perhaps you could do a bit of research on an area of law you would like to concentrate in. Read up on articles that you find the most interesting and email the authors/professors for some advice. You'll be surprised how helpful they can be. Since they are busy people, just be specific with your questions so they know how to answer. I'm afraid that advice from any LLM candidate would pale in comparison to a professor with weigth on an admissions decision. It is best to go right to the source!

Dear Soul Liberated:

I can understand where you're coming from. I went to a fourth tier law school and I'm interested in international law. I was admitted to Georgetown's LLM program in the fall and will be completing an LLM in the field there this year.

From my experience, the whole package you present the admissions' committee is important. Grades are a plus, obviously. I graduated in the top ten percent of my class and with honors. I had a smattering of As and Bs throughout three years of law school. Concentrate on getting As in the international or comparative law classes, but also doing well in the general areas. That helped me in the admission's process, since some schools only seriously consider applicants in the top of their class. Extracurricular activities are a boost, however. Do a moot court competition. Since you're interested in international law, do Jessup. I did that to show my interest in the field. If possible, get on either your school's law review or journal. That way you can show that you know how to do legal research and writing. I did that too. The people who write your recommendations are important and it sounds like you've got some connections in the field who can write a good letter for you. That also helped me.

In the end, if you can show an admissions' committee that you're interested in a particular field and that you have had academic success in getting your JD, the committee will probably look more favorably on you.

Hope this helps.