Is an LL.M worth it for a litigator?


Guys, its 100% proved that an LL.M could be extremely useful in corporate, M&A, tax or international arbitration for example. But my question is: is an LL.M truly worth it for a litigator? I come from a civil law country (France). I work as an associate in an international law firm. If I decide to get an LL.M, lets say it will cost $40,000 (tuition & fees), plus $30,000 (housing, food, books etc.). I also lost one year of what I earn as an associate (lets say roughly $55,000). So, an LL.M will not cost $70,000 but $125,000 in my case (and for a lot of people, too). I know that positions in big law firms in NYC are hard to get for LL.Ms, especially for those not from hot countries, and for those specialized in litigation/white-collar crime. My existing chances to get a 160K position are slim hence. I know one can get tuition waivers, scholarships, loans with low interest rates. But for the moment, I would have to pay $70,000 by myself if I decide to go. What would be the advantages of an LL.M? A great year, an exposure to US law, a better job (back home), well-paid etc It could also increase your partnerability in local US law firms for instance. There are other well-known good reasons to follow an LL.M program, OK, but this is a $125,000 shot. You could also obtain the same advantages without doing an LL.M, if youre lucky enough. Moreover, I am not sure an LL.M is really mandatory for those who want to practice litigation in their home country, even at a high level. You will speak and write English fluently for sure, and be able to explain to your US clients what are the differences between the US legal system and yours. These US clients will feel in good hands with a local lawyer who went to HLS, SLS or CLS and passed the NY bar exam. But I really wonder if what you learnt during your LL.M year is really useful while giving your closing arguments to a local court. Let me get it straight. I think an LL.M is a very very good degree. And to be honest, if I were admitted to HLS or SLS, I wouldnt think twice. But what about an LL.M in a top 10 or top 20 law school for a French litigator? Any help (especially black at SLS) would be much appreciated.

Guys, it’s 100% proved that an LL.M could be extremely useful in corporate, M&A, tax or international arbitration for example. But my question is: is an LL.M truly worth it for a litigator? I come from a civil law country (France). I work as an associate in an international law firm. If I decide to get an LL.M, let’s say it will cost $40,000 (tuition & fees), plus $30,000 (housing, food, books etc.). I also lost one year of what I earn as an associate (let’s say roughly $55,000). So, an LL.M will not cost $70,000 but $125,000 in my case (and for a lot of people, too). I know that positions in big law firms in NYC are hard to get for LL.M’s, especially for those not from “hot countries”, and for those specialized in litigation/white-collar crime. My existing chances to get a 160K position are slim hence. I know one can get tuition waivers, scholarships, loans with low interest rates. But for the moment, I would have to pay $70,000 by myself if I decide to go. What would be the advantages of an LL.M? A great year, an exposure to US law, a better job (back home), well-paid etc… It could also increase your “partnerability” in local US law firms for instance. There are other well-known good reasons to follow an LL.M program, OK, but this is a $125,000 shot. You could also obtain the same advantages without doing an LL.M, if you’re lucky enough. Moreover, I am not sure an LL.M is really mandatory for those who want to practice litigation in their home country, even at a high level. You will speak and write English fluently for sure, and be able to explain to your US clients what are the differences between the US legal system and yours. These US clients will feel in good hands with a local lawyer who went to HLS, SLS or CLS and passed the NY bar exam. But I really wonder if what you learnt during your LL.M year is really useful while giving your closing arguments to a local court. Let me get it straight. I think an LL.M is a very very good degree. And to be honest, if I were admitted to HLS or SLS, I wouldn’t think twice. But what about an LL.M in a top 10 or top 20 law school for a French litigator? Any help (especially black at SLS) would be much appreciated.


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josepidal

What would be the advantages of an LL.M? A great year, an exposure to US law, a better job (back home), well-paid etc It could also increase your partnerability in local US law firms for instance. There are other well-known good reasons to follow an LL.M program, OK, but this is a $125,000 shot.

Training in areas of US law that apply to matters involving multinational clients or cross-border transactions, plus the opportunity to tap a formidable global network and the school's global brand name. In addition, if you're interested in the 160K job, I've heard of a few rare instances where an LLM went into litigation. Unfortunately, they seemed to all involve LLMs from common law countries, so I wouldn't expect anything.

This is a good question, and I do know litigators from my country who went for an LLM with no intention of getting a US job. It's a long-term investment, though.

<blockquote>What would be the advantages of an LL.M? A great year, an exposure to US law, a better job (back home), well-paid etc… It could also increase your “partnerability” in local US law firms for instance. There are other well-known good reasons to follow an LL.M program, OK, but this is a $125,000 shot. </blockquote>
Training in areas of US law that apply to matters involving multinational clients or cross-border transactions, plus the opportunity to tap a formidable global network and the school's global brand name. In addition, if you're interested in the 160K job, I've heard of a few rare instances where an LLM went into litigation. Unfortunately, they seemed to all involve LLMs from common law countries, so I wouldn't expect anything.

This is a good question, and I do know litigators from my country who went for an LLM with no intention of getting a US job. It's a long-term investment, though.
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fg

I am in litigation in NYC and got an LLM from CLS. That being said I am from a common law country and it was extremely difficult to get this job. Some firms, for example Skadden, said that it is their policy is not to interview LLMs for litigation positions not matter what their individual credentials are like.

I am in litigation in NYC and got an LLM from CLS. That being said I am from a common law country and it was extremely difficult to get this job. Some firms, for example Skadden, said that it is their policy is not to interview LLMs for litigation positions not matter what their individual credentials are like.
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richardvf

OP,

The LL.M would only cost you out of pocket 82K, not 125K. You can't count the cost of housing, food, entertainment etc.(30K by your estimate) toward the cost of the LL.M as you would have to spend this money even if you were working. Additonally, with regard to the 55K for one year of lost salary, you should only count your loss of take home salary, which would only be approximately 42K after taxes, as opposed to your loss of gross salary. In other words, because you will not be working and making a salary of 55K, you are saving approximately 13K in taxes you would otherwise owe. Your cost for the LL.M is 40K for tuition and books and 42K for loss of take home salary, or 82K.

OP,

The LL.M would only cost you out of pocket 82K, not 125K. You can't count the cost of housing, food, entertainment etc.(30K by your estimate) toward the cost of the LL.M as you would have to spend this money even if you were working. Additonally, with regard to the 55K for one year of lost salary, you should only count your loss of take home salary, which would only be approximately 42K after taxes, as opposed to your loss of gross salary. In other words, because you will not be working and making a salary of 55K, you are saving approximately 13K in taxes you would otherwise owe. Your cost for the LL.M is 40K for tuition and books and 42K for loss of take home salary, or 82K.
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ivan2006

Maybe flygirl´s testimony is something to take into account. I know a litigator (specialized in arbitration) that is having a bad time to land a job in NYC despite having good grades, participated in the Moot Court competition and being involved with the Law Journal.

Maybe flygirl´s testimony is something to take into account. I know a litigator (specialized in arbitration) that is having a bad time to land a job in NYC despite having good grades, participated in the Moot Court competition and being involved with the Law Journal.
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black

Thanks for asking for my advice. I m not sure however that my case is representative. I was working in New York for almost 2 years when I applied for LLMs. I needed the NY bar to enlarge my scope of action (taking depositions, appearing in court, signing briefs, etc). I also studied previously in the UK. As a consequence, I am more an hybrid civil law-common law lawyer, than in the situation you describe of a 100% French law student and then counsel based in Paris. I can only confirm as per the previous replies to your post, that everybody says it's hardly realistic to land a job as a litigator in the US when from a civil law country and with only a master degree. Even if disappointing, this situation is understandable since, as you imply in your post, litigation is a very national practice (like tax from I heard). Hope that helps.

Thanks for asking for my advice. I m not sure however that my case is representative. I was working in New York for almost 2 years when I applied for LLMs. I needed the NY bar to enlarge my scope of action (taking depositions, appearing in court, signing briefs, etc). I also studied previously in the UK. As a consequence, I am more an hybrid civil law-common law lawyer, than in the situation you describe of a 100% French law student and then counsel based in Paris. I can only confirm as per the previous replies to your post, that everybody says it's hardly realistic to land a job as a litigator in the US when from a civil law country and with only a master degree. Even if disappointing, this situation is understandable since, as you imply in your post, litigation is a very national practice (like tax from I heard). Hope that helps.
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josepidal

Any insight into arbitration? I have a friend who is specialzing in that and has amazing work experience in litigation and arbitration in a (less significant) common law jurisdiction, but is having trouble finding an international arbitration slot.

I imagine it's like finding a corporate job, except the field is much smaller.

Any insight into arbitration? I have a friend who is specialzing in that and has amazing work experience in litigation and arbitration in a (less significant) common law jurisdiction, but is having trouble finding an international arbitration slot.

I imagine it's like finding a corporate job, except the field is much smaller.
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Thank you very much for your comments guys.

Thank you very much for your comments guys.
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