Harvard or Cambridge or Columbia?


koffie
Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!!
Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!!
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A$AP Legal
Cannot really tell anything on which school is better for public international law. But my best guess would be that all three do almost equally well.
Regarding your undetermined career plans: As far as I can tell, my impression is that career opportunities are better at HLS and CLS than at Cambridge. My impression is that HLS has the edge over CLS when it comes to a greater variety of career plans whereas CLS may be attracting more law firms. HLS may therefore be the better wildcard for you.
Cannot really tell anything on which school is better for public international law. But my best guess would be that all three do almost equally well.
Regarding your undetermined career plans: As far as I can tell, my impression is that career opportunities are better at HLS and CLS than at Cambridge. My impression is that HLS has the edge over CLS when it comes to a greater variety of career plans whereas CLS may be attracting more law firms. HLS may therefore be the better wildcard for you.
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koffie
thanks a lot.. i am also looking into a career in academia
thanks a lot.. i am also looking into a career in academia
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MV20178
Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!!


You got quite a trouble to decide there. All of your options are among the best universities on the planet (With highlights to Cambridge and HLS).
I think that before deciding which uni, you should decide which country do you want the most to reside and where you want to go after the LLM.

If Europe/UK is your biggest desire, i would go straight to Cambridge.
[quote]Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!![/quote]

You got quite a trouble to decide there. All of your options are among the best universities on the planet (With highlights to Cambridge and HLS).
I think that before deciding which uni, you should decide which country do you want the most to reside and where you want to go after the LLM.

If Europe/UK is your biggest desire, i would go straight to Cambridge.
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Considering that living abroad is a consideration, I'll give an endorsement to Cambridge. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in. The people in and around the Uni are witty and pleasant. It's less than an hour from London as well, and I understand that the winters in NY and BOS can be shockingly cold (maybe for me, having been around the equator all my life)
Considering that living abroad is a consideration, I'll give an endorsement to Cambridge. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in. The people in and around the Uni are witty and pleasant. It's less than an hour from London as well, and I understand that the winters in NY and BOS can be shockingly cold (maybe for me, having been around the equator all my life)
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MV20178
Considering that living abroad is a consideration, I'll give an endorsement to Cambridge. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in. The people in and around the Uni are witty and pleasant. It's less than an hour from London as well, and I understand that the winters in NY and BOS can be shockingly cold (maybe for me, having been around the equator all my life)


A LLM in the UK is, overall, including the Pound exchange, relatively cheaper than an US-based one. Cambridge tuition fee foran overseas student is 27720 pounds, roughly 39000 dollars. Consider now that HLS and CLS both charge around 61k in tuition fees only.

This does not take into account any scholarship, of course.

I don't if the same logic is applicable to living cost though.
[quote]Considering that living abroad is a consideration, I'll give an endorsement to Cambridge. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in. The people in and around the Uni are witty and pleasant. It's less than an hour from London as well, and I understand that the winters in NY and BOS can be shockingly cold (maybe for me, having been around the equator all my life)[/quote]

A LLM in the UK is, overall, including the Pound exchange, relatively cheaper than an US-based one. Cambridge tuition fee foran overseas student is 27720 pounds, roughly 39000 dollars. Consider now that HLS and CLS both charge around 61k in tuition fees only.

This does not take into account any scholarship, of course.

I don't if the same logic is applicable to living cost though.
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Ribben
Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!!


IMO Harvard has the edge when it comes to brand recognition and reputation. Cambridge comes in close second place. Columbia isn't really at the level of the other two.
[quote]Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!![/quote]

IMO Harvard has the edge when it comes to brand recognition and reputation. Cambridge comes in close second place. Columbia isn't really at the level of the other two.
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Harvey Spe...
Harvard, I am sure that Louis Litt would also agree!
Harvard, I am sure that Louis Litt would also agree!
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Cambridge, man. I'm sure that Hersch Lauterpacht would also agree!

[Edited by Professor Vader on Mar 21, 2018]

Cambridge, man. I'm sure that Hersch Lauterpacht would also agree!
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koffie
i have heard that cambridge can be a little stifling in only allowing 4 courses, all exam centric. thoughts?
i have heard that cambridge can be a little stifling in only allowing 4 courses, all exam centric. thoughts?
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koffie
Harvard, I am sure that Louis Litt would also agree!


;) jajaja, i wonder if your view would change if i tell you i do not want to do corporate finance!
[quote]Harvard, I am sure that Louis Litt would also agree![/quote]

;) jajaja, i wonder if your view would change if i tell you i do not want to do corporate finance!
quote
sark
Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!!


IMO Harvard has the edge when it comes to brand recognition and reputation. Cambridge comes in close second place. Columbia isn't really at the level of the other two.


Agreed that in this scenario Columbia isn't an option (I would only start to consider it if you had a full scholarship of some sort there AND you faced trouble to afford the others). There're good reasons to go to either Harvard or Cambridge. Harvard is much more expensive, but you'll get your money worth: you'll have more courses to choose from, you'll have more hours of classes, a lot of people dedicated to trying to help you find a job after you finish the program, lots of conferences with free food, etc. And this year they have an amazing international law faculty, since Philippe Sands, Anne Orford, Michael Waibel, and others are visiting.

On the other hand, Cambridge is traditionally the strongest university in the world to study international law. They also have a world-class faculty, and everyone relevant delivers a lecture at the Lauterpacht at some point.

In any case, congrats. You can't really go wrong (if you dismiss Columbia!).
[quote][quote]Hi! I am interested in public international law and am wondering which institution would be the best to pursue my LLM from. Some more context: I am not certain about my career plans in the future but want to live abroad for a while...please let me know your thoughts!!!!![/quote]

IMO Harvard has the edge when it comes to brand recognition and reputation. Cambridge comes in close second place. Columbia isn't really at the level of the other two. [/quote]

Agreed that in this scenario Columbia isn't an option (I would only start to consider it if you had a full scholarship of some sort there AND you faced trouble to afford the others). There're good reasons to go to either Harvard or Cambridge. Harvard is much more expensive, but you'll get your money worth: you'll have more courses to choose from, you'll have more hours of classes, a lot of people dedicated to trying to help you find a job after you finish the program, lots of conferences with free food, etc. And this year they have an amazing international law faculty, since Philippe Sands, Anne Orford, Michael Waibel, and others are visiting.

On the other hand, Cambridge is traditionally the strongest university in the world to study international law. They also have a world-class faculty, and everyone relevant delivers a lecture at the Lauterpacht at some point.

In any case, congrats. You can't really go wrong (if you dismiss Columbia!).
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JJM5
Columbia!
Columbia!
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Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge?
Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge?
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Harvey Spe...
Can you please specify this?

Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge?
Can you please specify this?

[quote]Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge? [/quote]
quote
Can you please specify this?

Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge?


Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.
[quote]Can you please specify this?

[quote]Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge? [/quote][/quote]

Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.
quote
Louis Litt
Can you please specify this?

Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge?


Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.


NYU is considered to be the best law school for public international law in USA. It has excellent faculty, good reputation among practitioners and usually placed in the top of specialized rankings. Cambridge, on the other hand, is considered to be the best law school for international law in the world. But I think that you particular choice should depends on more practical considerations, such as you career plans (academia or practice), where do you want to work (government, NGO, international organizations, law firms, etc.), in what country and of course what part of international law are you interested in (human rights, investment, WTO, security, etc.). If you answer this questions it will be far easier to make a decision.

From my experience, in Europe Cambridge, and European universities as a whole, has a better reputation than American ones. And in some countries one university may be more prestigious due to the wider alumni network and perceived academic quality. For example in my country LLM from English universities is completely useless, but US universities command high esteem in both academia and practice, and NYU is considered to be on par with Harvard, or only slightly less prestigious, but Yale is a complete nonentity.

You should also take into account the area of practice as, despite general reputation, some universities has a great reputation in a specific field. Georgetown is a top choice for WTO law and Harvard has no courses dedicated to WTO at all. NYU is top choice for arbitration and international dispute resolution in general, but their offering for law of war/counterterrorism and security related fields is almost nonexistent, but Harvard has a lot of them.

This is also closely linked to you career plans, as if you want to pursue an academic career in international law in general and do not know where to specialize yet, I would recommend to choose university on the basis of the general reputation (i.e. Harvard or Cambridge), and if you already know your specific field to choose depending on course offering and reputation of the faculty in the specific filed irrespective of general reputation.
If you want to practice law, I would recommend to choose on the basis of potential employers preferences, as in this case you should view you LLM as an investment that should have the highest possible yield (in both monetary and placement terms).

Personally I favor US schools in general and Harvard in particular (but your choice should depend on you answers to the questions listed above). Oxford/Cambridge approach, when you have only 4 courses, is too restrictive, as generally such courses are too general in nature, and in Harvard/Columbia/NYU you will have opportunity to tailor you curriculum with the focus on particular area of international law.
Cambridge is usually credited for a great opportunity to be supervised by academic advisor, but I think that this service is tremendously overestimated. I have one colleague, who got Oxford Mjur (they have the same system) three years ago, and he told me that in fact it is very difficult to have more than 4 meeting in the academic year, they are not one on one meetings, but rather a small group and seldom last longer than half an hour. So I think they are quite useless.
[quote][quote]Can you please specify this?

[quote]Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge? [/quote][/quote]

Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.[/quote]

NYU is considered to be the best law school for public international law in USA. It has excellent faculty, good reputation among practitioners and usually placed in the top of specialized rankings. Cambridge, on the other hand, is considered to be the best law school for international law in the world. But I think that you particular choice should depends on more practical considerations, such as you career plans (academia or practice), where do you want to work (government, NGO, international organizations, law firms, etc.), in what country and of course what part of international law are you interested in (human rights, investment, WTO, security, etc.). If you answer this questions it will be far easier to make a decision.

From my experience, in Europe Cambridge, and European universities as a whole, has a better reputation than American ones. And in some countries one university may be more prestigious due to the wider alumni network and perceived academic quality. For example in my country LLM from English universities is completely useless, but US universities command high esteem in both academia and practice, and NYU is considered to be on par with Harvard, or only slightly less prestigious, but Yale is a complete nonentity.

You should also take into account the area of practice as, despite general reputation, some universities has a great reputation in a specific field. Georgetown is a top choice for WTO law and Harvard has no courses dedicated to WTO at all. NYU is top choice for arbitration and international dispute resolution in general, but their offering for law of war/counterterrorism and security related fields is almost nonexistent, but Harvard has a lot of them.

This is also closely linked to you career plans, as if you want to pursue an academic career in international law in general and do not know where to specialize yet, I would recommend to choose university on the basis of the general reputation (i.e. Harvard or Cambridge), and if you already know your specific field to choose depending on course offering and reputation of the faculty in the specific filed irrespective of general reputation.
If you want to practice law, I would recommend to choose on the basis of potential employers preferences, as in this case you should view you LLM as an investment that should have the highest possible yield (in both monetary and placement terms).

Personally I favor US schools in general and Harvard in particular (but your choice should depend on you answers to the questions listed above). Oxford/Cambridge approach, when you have only 4 courses, is too restrictive, as generally such courses are too general in nature, and in Harvard/Columbia/NYU you will have opportunity to tailor you curriculum with the focus on particular area of international law.
Cambridge is usually credited for a great opportunity to be supervised by academic advisor, but I think that this service is tremendously overestimated. I have one colleague, who got Oxford Mjur (they have the same system) three years ago, and he told me that in fact it is very difficult to have more than 4 meeting in the academic year, they are not one on one meetings, but rather a small group and seldom last longer than half an hour. So I think they are quite useless.









quote
jklia
I completely second this analysis with one minor thing to keep in mind from a European perspective: Brexit!
Of course university reputation won't change overtime and may remain exactly the same, but you may want to keep in mind that regarding research centers and collaboration with other universities/private sector, British universities may loose of their potential and prestige.

It all comes down to your professional goals!


Can you please specify this?



Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.


NYU is considered to be the best law school for public international law in USA. It has excellent faculty, good reputation among practitioners and usually placed in the top of specialized rankings. Cambridge, on the other hand, is considered to be the best law school for international law in the world. But I think that you particular choice should depends on more practical considerations, such as you career plans (academia or practice), where do you want to work (government, NGO, international organizations, law firms, etc.), in what country and of course what part of international law are you interested in (human rights, investment, WTO, security, etc.). If you answer this questions it will be far easier to make a decision.

From my experience, in Europe Cambridge, and European universities as a whole, has a better reputation than American ones. And in some countries one university may be more prestigious due to the wider alumni network and perceived academic quality. For example in my country LLM from English universities is completely useless, but US universities command high esteem in both academia and practice, and NYU is considered to be on par with Harvard, or only slightly less prestigious, but Yale is a complete nonentity.

You should also take into account the area of practice as, despite general reputation, some universities has a great reputation in a specific field. Georgetown is a top choice for WTO law and Harvard has no courses dedicated to WTO at all. NYU is top choice for arbitration and international dispute resolution in general, but their offering for law of war/counterterrorism and security related fields is almost nonexistent, but Harvard has a lot of them.

This is also closely linked to you career plans, as if you want to pursue an academic career in international law in general and do not know where to specialize yet, I would recommend to choose university on the basis of the general reputation (i.e. Harvard or Cambridge), and if you already know your specific field to choose depending on course offering and reputation of the faculty in the specific filed irrespective of general reputation.
If you want to practice law, I would recommend to choose on the basis of potential employers preferences, as in this case you should view you LLM as an investment that should have the highest possible yield (in both monetary and placement terms).

Personally I favor US schools in general and Harvard in particular (but your choice should depend on you answers to the questions listed above). Oxford/Cambridge approach, when you have only 4 courses, is too restrictive, as generally such courses are too general in nature, and in Harvard/Columbia/NYU you will have opportunity to tailor you curriculum with the focus on particular area of international law.
Cambridge is usually credited for a great opportunity to be supervised by academic advisor, but I think that this service is tremendously overestimated. I have one colleague, who got Oxford Mjur (they have the same system) three years ago, and he told me that in fact it is very difficult to have more than 4 meeting in the academic year, they are not one on one meetings, but rather a small group and seldom last longer than half an hour. So I think they are quite useless.


I completely second this analysis with one minor thing to keep in mind from a European perspective: Brexit!
Of course university reputation won't change overtime and may remain exactly the same, but you may want to keep in mind that regarding research centers and collaboration with other universities/private sector, British universities may loose of their potential and prestige.

It all comes down to your professional goals!


[quote][quote][quote]Can you please specify this?

[quote]Guys, any thoughts on NYU and Yale vs Harvard, Columbia and Cambridge? [/quote][/quote]

Thank you for your reply. The question is still related to a LLM with a focus on public international law.[/quote]

NYU is considered to be the best law school for public international law in USA. It has excellent faculty, good reputation among practitioners and usually placed in the top of specialized rankings. Cambridge, on the other hand, is considered to be the best law school for international law in the world. But I think that you particular choice should depends on more practical considerations, such as you career plans (academia or practice), where do you want to work (government, NGO, international organizations, law firms, etc.), in what country and of course what part of international law are you interested in (human rights, investment, WTO, security, etc.). If you answer this questions it will be far easier to make a decision.

From my experience, in Europe Cambridge, and European universities as a whole, has a better reputation than American ones. And in some countries one university may be more prestigious due to the wider alumni network and perceived academic quality. For example in my country LLM from English universities is completely useless, but US universities command high esteem in both academia and practice, and NYU is considered to be on par with Harvard, or only slightly less prestigious, but Yale is a complete nonentity.

You should also take into account the area of practice as, despite general reputation, some universities has a great reputation in a specific field. Georgetown is a top choice for WTO law and Harvard has no courses dedicated to WTO at all. NYU is top choice for arbitration and international dispute resolution in general, but their offering for law of war/counterterrorism and security related fields is almost nonexistent, but Harvard has a lot of them.

This is also closely linked to you career plans, as if you want to pursue an academic career in international law in general and do not know where to specialize yet, I would recommend to choose university on the basis of the general reputation (i.e. Harvard or Cambridge), and if you already know your specific field to choose depending on course offering and reputation of the faculty in the specific filed irrespective of general reputation.
If you want to practice law, I would recommend to choose on the basis of potential employers preferences, as in this case you should view you LLM as an investment that should have the highest possible yield (in both monetary and placement terms).

Personally I favor US schools in general and Harvard in particular (but your choice should depend on you answers to the questions listed above). Oxford/Cambridge approach, when you have only 4 courses, is too restrictive, as generally such courses are too general in nature, and in Harvard/Columbia/NYU you will have opportunity to tailor you curriculum with the focus on particular area of international law.
Cambridge is usually credited for a great opportunity to be supervised by academic advisor, but I think that this service is tremendously overestimated. I have one colleague, who got Oxford Mjur (they have the same system) three years ago, and he told me that in fact it is very difficult to have more than 4 meeting in the academic year, they are not one on one meetings, but rather a small group and seldom last longer than half an hour. So I think they are quite useless.









[/quote]
quote
Thank you very much! Your comments are very helpful. My goal is to work for an international organization or my government in the future. My plan is to select classes in general PIL, international humanitarian law and human rights, on the one side, and classes in international economic law/WTO law and international dispute settlement, on the other side.

[Edited by shortlisted on Feb 14, 2019]

Thank you very much! Your comments are very helpful. My goal is to work for an international organization or my government in the future. My plan is to select classes in general PIL, international humanitarian law and human rights, on the one side, and classes in international economic law/WTO law and international dispute settlement, on the other side.
quote
jklia
Do you intend to look for employment in international organizations in Europe or on a broader scale such as the UN (and related agencies), Red Cross etc. ?

I think you need to choose what's your precise career target (global or European) when considering which llm to go for. From experience I believe that American llm are quite popular in the council of Europe and the European institutions, unless the person doing the hiring went to a British program (LSE's degrees are definitely something that is quite common in the EU). But again I would flag that with Brexit comes a certain degree of uncertainty...

I would personally go for an American LLM (less risky in the long-term), but maybe your best option now would be to talk to alumni that ended up in the kind of professional position you target, and have a feedback on their hiring prospect after their LLM.
Do you intend to look for employment in international organizations in Europe or on a broader scale such as the UN (and related agencies), Red Cross etc. ?

I think you need to choose what's your precise career target (global or European) when considering which llm to go for. From experience I believe that American llm are quite popular in the council of Europe and the European institutions, unless the person doing the hiring went to a British program (LSE's degrees are definitely something that is quite common in the EU). But again I would flag that with Brexit comes a certain degree of uncertainty...

I would personally go for an American LLM (less risky in the long-term), but maybe your best option now would be to talk to alumni that ended up in the kind of professional position you target, and have a feedback on their hiring prospect after their LLM.
quote

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