Hello guys, I am going to Washington DC, Georgetown, for the LLM in International Business and Economic Law. I would like to get to know my future classmates (plans, ambitions, background, why you chose DC or Georgetown), as well as to share information regarding housing options, health insurance plan, tuitions, summer course, etc.

I chose Georgetown because of the program and better oportunities of networking. I worked both in private and public sectors in my country and I have 5 years of experience. I intend to go to the summer course (mainly because of NY BAR requirements) and stay in Georgetown Housing(Gerwiz ).

Concerning the tuition , I think the premier plan (linked to international students plan) is the best option. I will probably acquire Georgetown's health insure plan. I would like to know your thoughts on this.

It will be a pleasure to get to know everyone. If you prefer to send me a private message, I am also avaiable.

Joy - Can you explain what exactly you meant with this statement " I intend to go to the summer course (mainly because of NY BAR requirements)"?

Hopefully you'll have a lot of opportunities to network. That is pretty much a full-time job. Good luck with your choice. It is a good school in a nice area. Lots of interesting places to see and tasty restaurants. Be careful though about some of the areas of DC where it isn't very safe at night.

Hello guys, I am going to Washington DC, Georgetown, for the LLM in International Business and Economic Law. I would like to get to know my future classmates (plans, ambitions, background, why you chose DC or Georgetown), as well as to share information regarding housing options, health insurance plan, tuitions, summer course, etc.

I chose Georgetown because of the program and better oportunities of networking. I worked both in private and public sectors in my country and I have 5 years of experience. I intend to go to the summer course (mainly because of NY BAR requirements) and stay in Georgetown Housing(Gerwiz ).

Concerning the tuition , I think the premier plan (linked to international students plan) is the best option. I will probably acquire Georgetown's health insure plan. I would like to know your thoughts on this.

It will be a pleasure to get to know everyone. If you prefer to send me a private message, I am also avaiable.

Joy - Can you explain what exactly you meant with this statement " I intend to go to the summer course (mainly because of NY BAR requirements)"?

Hopefully you'll have a lot of opportunities to network. That is pretty much a full-time job. Good luck with your choice. It is a good school in a nice area. Lots of interesting places to see and tasty restaurants. Be careful though about some of the areas of DC where it isn't very safe at night.

@CorpLawyer and Wavshrdr: I have seen you in different posts and I am glad that you are also considering Georgetown.

Georgetown's summer couses fullfill some requirements of the NY BAR exam. It is also a nice way to adjust to the city and the socratic method before the beginning of classes. Since I come from a civil law background, I think it will be helpful.

Everybody seems to know someone at DC. Georgetown is one of the best schools in my area of expertise ( and I have talked to many people). Georgetown might not be on the top ten if you consider the general ranking, but when it comes to specific areas such as an antitrust, tax law, WTO and others, it is always one of the best schools. If you also consider employment rankings, Georgetown is on the top choices of lawyers (and lawoffices) and it seems to be oriented towards practical experience. In my country,Georgetown is more well known than Universities such as Michigan, Northwestern, Virginia or even NYU.

In addition, being in DC is also an advantage if you want to work with things related to the government. From my own personal experience, being near the action improves cahnces of getting a job. I had unique opportunities to work with Justices, Commisioners and some Law Offices because I live in a Capital. Also, we will have more access to international lecturers, etc.

However, I believe that people have different perspectives and the LLM should also be about the experience. Some people want to have a sabatic year, others, like myself, want to reconcile academic and practical interests.

GT is a great school in so many ways. If they have a program matching your area of interest it is a great way to go. I have been torn between a few programs. I can do what I do really way and build upon that OR I can go into an area where I have less experience but a lot of interest.

After speaking to many schools, they almost all suggested staying in the area where I have deep expertise. All things considered, here is how I ranked schools based on my interest and what I value.

Stanford
NYU
GT
Michigan

I really wanted a small program where I can get to know my professors and that has a great reputation. That is one of the reasons I wasn't as interested in Harvard. The program there is huge and I felt I might just be lost among hundreds of students. I think Harvard has more LLMs each year than Stanford has JDs (maybe a bit of hyperbole but not far from the truth).

After speaking to many schools, I realized that the potential to get a job after school is going to be a challenge at best. So I realized that school rank, like it or not, really factors into your job chances. The only area that has a chance to trump school rank is program rank and that really only seems to apply to Tax and more US than int'l.

If you go to NYU, and do US Tax, your odds of getting a job are great. The stats are something like 93% of NYU LLM Tax grads get a job. I don't really want to do US Tax even though I have an interest in it as I would be coming from such a huge disadvantage compared to US JD grads who took US Tax in school. So I realized my chances for success in that area would be very limited and the amount of work to come up to their starting level would be very difficult. Not to mention the courses are so tax focused that it wouldn't help me be prepared to take a bar exam.

As a result I realized there are 3 schools I need to consider; Stanford, Michigan and UT Austin. The reason UT Austin showed up is the new person running the program really seems to want to make a difference and wants to seriously elevate their LLM program and willing to try new things. I think that someone in that program might be able to get a lot more support as UT Austin tries to make a name in the LLM market. In addition Texas made it much easier for foreign law students to practice law.

Well I just received an offer from NUS for their specialized LLM in International Business Law.

Tough decisions to make considering the deadlines and the pending waitlist decisions for Penn Law and Cornell.

@ Wavshrdr: It depends. Are satisfied with the area that you work for or do you want to change? If you love what you currently do, it is easy. If you don't, this is the best oportunity to change your area of expertise. I think this is the biggest decision that you have to make.

I was also tempted by Michigan, since I was accpeted there. They have an amazing program and I trully believe that small programs stimulate the learning process. I realize it is going to be tougher to compete for a professor's atention in a big LLM class like Georgetown, but there are other advantages such as networking and location (and I don't mind the competition). Both Michigan and Stanford are excellent. I know people who have studied in Stanford and Michigan and they loved it. It was the time of their lives. Have you talked to alumni? It helped me a lot in my decision process. If you want to, I can introduce you to some of them.

From my experience, getting a job is about being in a big school school + networking, but there are different ways of doing that. In a big program, you will know a lot of people (colleagues, professors, social events). In a small program , I would focus on being research assistant and getting close to professors.

LLM students are at disavantadge in comparison to JDs if you are talking about american laws, but LLM's ususally have more exerience. I think that this can also be an advantage. In addition, even if you don't get a job in the US after your LLM, it doesn't mean that you won't get one in the future.

I chose Georgetown because DC is where I want to be after the LLM. I want to work with things related to the Government. For many students, NY would be the ideal place.

Regarding NYU and UT Austin: I think you should consider your personal interests, not the competition (JDs, etc). NYU has an excellent Tax program and so does Georgetown. UT Austin is very good for the criminal area and petroil regulation.

@ Joy - very good points and I agree with most of them. I would be interesting in speaking with more alumni if you want me to PM me with the info. I always try and do my due diligence. :-)

I am very good in my area currently with 10+ years of experience so I have a very good foundation. OTOH tax law and energy were very interesting. My country has to deal a lot with energy issues and I think this will become more prominent in the world. Our tax code clearly has issues as we basically inherited it from another country. It clearly needs to be reformed. I have experience in cross-border transactions so I do have a lot of exposure to international tax so that was an interesting area to me.

I think finding any job comes down more to networking and your school's pedigree in the market if you want a chance of finding work in the US. I would like to get practical experience in the US and then return home at some point to put my experience to use. Unfortunately the reality is you still need to compete with JDs and the US legal market still has an over supply issue with respect to lawyers.

I think any of the top schools will provide an excellent education. I really thought about GT but ultimately realized it might not be my best choice.

Best of luck Joy!

Well I just received an offer from NUS for their specialized LLM in International Business Law.

Tough decisions to make considering the deadlines and the pending waitlist decisions for Penn Law and Cornell.

Hello guys, I am going to Washington DC, Georgetown, for the LLM in International Business and Economic Law. I would like to get to know my future classmates (plans, ambitions, background, why you chose DC or Georgetown), as well as to share information regarding housing options, health insurance plan, tuitions, summer course, etc.

I chose Georgetown because of the program and better oportunities of networking. I worked both in private and public sectors in my country and I have 5 years of experience. I intend to go to the summer course (mainly because of NY BAR requirements) and stay in Georgetown Housing(Gerwiz ).

Concerning the tuition , I think the premier plan (linked to international students plan) is the best option. I will probably acquire Georgetown's health insure plan. I would like to know your thoughts on this.

It will be a pleasure to get to know everyone. If you prefer to send me a private message, I am also avaiable.

@stwer90: Congratulations to both of us! Arbitration is an excelent choice.

I am so glad to hear about the "community" since this is the reason why I chose Georgetown in the first place. I don`t expect to have too many courses since I also want to occupy my time with lectures, seminars, and studying (of course). However, I do believe that it will be better (in my case) to use the summer experience to adjust to the common law system, since my background is from civil law. I also want to get to know the my colleagues and the place without the fall pressure. Since you already live in DC and work in the field, the summer course might not be as useful.

Regarding Gewirtz, it is my intention to stay there in the summer. Do you know if I can get an apartment just to myself? However, I confess I am concerned about having a roomate with different schedule, habits, goals, etc. What if I want to study or sleep and my roomate intends to have a different lifestyle? A studio would be great, but I heard that Universities housing are better choices because you don`t have to worry about furniture, internet, water and electricity bills, etc. Plus they have other facilities such as laundry, gym, etc. Where do you live in DC? Bethesda was highly recommended, but they said it can be expensive. I am also concerned about how far the studios are from Georgetown. I don't mind walking in the summer, but I am concerned about how cold it can be in the winter. Usually, how much does it cost to rent a studio?

Your comment was VERY helpful. Thank you!

@ Wavshrdr: I actually saw your post in Columbia X Stanford and I think you have some very good points regarding NY. From what I have observed, I believe that a small school will be a better fit for your goals. Both Michigan and Stanford are excelent choices. I will send you my contacts in those institutions (private message).

You seem to have a lot of experience, which is great. I agree with you, I do believe energy is an issue that concerns the whole world. I also had to dealt with energy issues since we have to study many markets in antitrust, including energy, oil&gas, banking, etc.When I was an intern, I had some experience with tax law, but antitrust was always my passion. I also want to deepen my knowledge in anticorruption regulation and public policies

Regarding the practical experience in the US, there are no guarantees whatsoever that we will be able to get a job in the US after the LLM. I think that experience is our best ally. I trust that I have a good resume and 5 year work experience in law.

We can only hope to have a wonderful experience, do our homework and hope for the best. Lets keep in touch and maybe we can all help one another in our journeys.

Well I just received an offer from NUS for their specialized LLM in International Business Law.

Tough decisions to make considering the deadlines and the pending waitlist decisions for Penn Law and Cornell.

@CorpLawyer: I agree. Go with your guts. I think you should consider which place will offer you better chances after the LLM. What do you want to do after the LLM (Law Office, NGO) and where (DC, Chicago, NY). I like the idea of living in a big city, but I think DC (and Chicago) are a better cities than NY (it is not as expensive, people are more friendly, there is less violence). Chicago is amazing and Northwestern (I was also accpeted there) is good in helping their studends to get a position . I didn't choose NU because my focus is not in corporate law (which is an area that NU is really good at).

I was also waitlisted by UPEnn.

Is the Wharton certificate at UPEnn equivalent to the LLM-K program at Northwestern? I declined the LLM-K because I thought that the certificate was too expensive (my currency is not at its best moment right - it would cost the triple)

Adittionally, I talked to some students and they said that the certificate is just for personal knowledge. The market recognizes only the LLM, they won`t pay you any extra for the certificate in Business. We would be better with an MBA degree.

I agree with Joy. I see very little value, at least in the US, for any certificate. It seems like just a way for universities to squeeze more money out of foreign students. I am not saying the have no value as they might be educational for some people but I don't think it is going to have much impact with a potential employer. No if you have a MBA, then that would have an effect.

@Joy Hopeful and Wavshrdr: I do respect your opinions but I feel when comparing Georgetown to Penn Law the certificate is certainly an added advantage. As far as it's impact with a potential employer is concerned, I agree that it may not have a decisive impact with the employers in US. However, the pertinent point is the fact that a US LLM in itself does not mean that you will get a job and a specialization certificate will certainly give an edge and may have the potential to positively distinguish your profile from other international candidates.

Well, at the end of the day the harsh reality is that one will need to appear for the state bar exams if one intends to pursue a legal career in the USA.

As for me I am not quite enthusiastic about working in the US considering the current legal market however I am sure an LLM from a reputed University in USA will certainly help you attract employers from other jurisdictions also.

Honestly, this certificate is just a half measure to me. I really doubt it will do much to differentiate you from any other candidates. School/program ranking will do much more in this area. If you were getting and MBA from Wharton then it would be something very significant. All a certificate says is "I took a few classes" UNLESS there is VERY significant coursework required to receive it AND that the demanding curriculum required is well know. If I were an employer, I would give little notice to it except under the circumstances I mentioned (incredibly well known certificate with demanding/well known curriculum.

Don't try and be too many things. Be a lawyer or be an MBA but make sure it is obvious where you interest is. If you can't clearly articulate what you are good at and why a firm should hire you, then very little chance of getting hired.

As for getting hired in the US, I have done a lot of research, likely more than most on this forum. No matter how I approach it, it is going to be a challenge. Despite the incredible obstacles, I am still willing to attempt it but I am going into it with my eyes open as they say. From what I've learned, school ranking pays such an important part as does the alumni network. Also the top schools attend the elite job fairs.

My logic is I wanted to be a top school with an opportunity to attend the elite job fairs. I also wanted to be one of just a few from the school. So having a smaller LLM class size (or program) meant I would be more likely to stand out. That is one big difference between SLS and HLS. There are about 4-5 times more students in the HLS LLM class than at SLS. With that many students at a job fair representing HLS, I would be one fish in a very big pond.

I think it is essential to have practical training and to pass the bar before I go home. By doing so I will have clearly demonstrated my familiarity and experience with the US legal system and at least one jurisdiction. I can then apply what I've learned more effectively in my home country. At least that is my dream anyway. Now it is up to me to make it a reality.

So CorpLawyer if you think that the certificate will somehow differentiate you, and you have the time, money and energy to pursue it, then by all means do so. Sometimes by doing something like this might make you feel more confident and you'll do better in the interviews.

Well you are entitled to your opinion and I do respect the same. However, kindly note that I did mention while comparing the two law schools that the wharton certificate is an added advantage. Hence, the certificate is one of the compelling reasons to choose UPenn over Georgetown. Moreover, UPenn is quite highly ranked than Georgetown. So, It is in this context and while discussing the exclusive opportunities offered by various universities that I stressed on the certificate offered by Wharton. As regards it's curriculum and it's reputation, it is pertinent to mention that after my research and interaction with some of my seniors who did pursue the certificate course, I am quite convinced that it's certainly a course I would pursue. It's not about trying to be too many things but accentuating your profile as a lawyer in the best possible manner. Pursuing the certificate course might be significant for some and less significant for others, hence it's quite a subjective issue.

I basically gave you my reasons for opting for UPenn over Georgetown and my opinion on pursuing the certificate course. And like you lot of us have done our research quite thoroughly on the job prospects in the US after an LLM. It is based on the research that I stated an LLM is not the sole determinant for securing employment in the USA no matter which elite job fairs you attend.

Anyways, we all have our reasons for choosing a particular course and I am sure that whichever program you choose for yourselves would be best suited for your objectives.

As regards my interest in opting for UPenn, it is still dependent on the Waitlist result.

I honestly think the ranking of UPenn will give you more of an advantage than the certificate. I would also look at the area of the school and the job markets they feed into with respect to potential employment.

UPenn is a predominant feeding school into the NYC market. GT is more Washington, DC based. So I would also look at your area of specific interest and see how it matches up with those markets as well.

I conferred with my partner who works at a very large company that has a lot of lawyers to get his perspective. While they aren't totally focused on law, in sheer size if they were, they would be one of the largest law firms in the US. Generally they hire for in-house counsel. The typically look at schools first, clas rank and area of study. My partner is involved in the interview process but not for law. I didn't mention certificate but just asked about what are the key things they look for in hiring. Certificates were never mentioned in the top areas so I asked about it afterwards as I didn't want a prejudicial reply.

The response I received was rarely are they a reason to hire someone, at most they might get someone to look slightly longer at your CV/resume. Now it if is a certification that is by an independent body that has national or international recognition that somehow speaks to your ability in an area of specialization then that might be a factor. An example was provided. Let's say you want to study IP law. Having a certification from a company like Microsoft might show your deep technical expertise in addition to your law ability so you might better able to understand the impact of laws around software.

If you think a certificate gives you a competitive edge then great. By all means pursue it. From all the schools I've talked to they all say networking is the biggest impact even at the top of the elite schools. If you really want to practice law in the US, the LLM is obviously not the best way to do it but for sometimes it is the only option. The cost of LLM is already staggering and the thought of 3 years of US law school would be astronomical. Even the accelerated 2 year JD programs would be pretty much unattainable for many without serious financial support. American law students are already struggling with huge student debt and not exactly bright prospects.

So when you look at the legal market in the US it isn't exactly an encouraging picture with respect to finding employment. If JDs coming from pretty good schools are having trouble finding work then hopefully all of us better hope our CV tells a remarkable story combined with an LLM from a very respected school or program. Then factor in the challenge of bar passage it likely less than 5% that you can find employment in the US.

If I were to make an educated guess, if you are at a school lower than T15 your chances are likely null to find a job. This isn't directed at you CorpLawyer but the board in general. There also seems to be an interest in firms from people with connections to South America and Asia. So that can improve your job prospects somewhat.

Even in the best of years, a LLM was still at a significant disadvantage to finding employment. Even at the top schools it was maybe about a 60% chance of finding OPT. A lot of that is how most firms are looking for people a year out.

Good luck getting into Penn. Sort of interesting that so many Americans who were interested in law are now going to business. I recently read somewhere that a MBA from Wharton is worth more to your career than a law degree from Penn.

At least the reduced amount of people going into law the past few years have helped the market. I have a friend who went to a top ranked school for their LLM, even while residing in the US as a permanent resident, still hasn't been able to find work as a lawyer in the last 4 years. That isn't very encouraging to say the least but at least things are looking a bit better.