Be Careful Doing The LLM


JamesKeen

I did an LLM at a top 20-30 school after my UK LLB. Fearing that I would never get a job with just an LLM, I did an extra 2 yrs and attained a decent JD (top1/3 of class) with moot court honors to boot.

However, two three-year law degrees later with dual UK/US (Colorado and New york) qualification and 2 EU lingos you'd think i'd be doing something decent.

However, I am working for a solo practitioner in rural colorado and earn just over $25,000/yr, with no benefits. i can't even return to the UK because I am completely unemployable there, and I have not had as much as one interview with even a decent midsized non-national US firm in 6 years of education and experience.

I did an LLM at a top 20-30 school after my UK LLB. Fearing that I would never get a job with just an LLM, I did an extra 2 yrs and attained a decent JD (top1/3 of class) with moot court honors to boot.

However, two three-year law degrees later with dual UK/US (Colorado and New york) qualification and 2 EU lingos you'd think i'd be doing something decent.

However, I am working for a solo practitioner in rural colorado and earn just over $25,000/yr, with no benefits. i can't even return to the UK because I am completely unemployable there, and I have not had as much as one interview with even a decent midsized non-national US firm in 6 years of education and experience.



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Turkued

A J.D. is normally three years.

Were you able to get advanced standing for your LLM credits? I tried that and had no luck.

I understand your predictament. I find my European degrees worthless in the U.S.A. and my American degrees worthless in Europe. Consequently I'm employable nowhere.

A J.D. is normally three years.

Were you able to get advanced standing for your LLM credits? I tried that and had no luck.

I understand your predictament. I find my European degrees worthless in the U.S.A. and my American degrees worthless in Europe. Consequently I'm employable nowhere.

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JamesKeen

but the point seems to be also that a full three-year US law degree is useless in the US and a European law degree is useless in Europe. i even have the tax people coming after me because i can't afford to pay taxes, and i have defaulted on my student loans by paying them way lesss than the minimum monthly payment - i send them about $50/mth (the min is $575 incl UK loan repayments!!)

the up-side is that my employer, though me, got me the H1B and just two months ago i got my permanent residency/green card, so at least now i can quit jobs and take advantnage of the opportunities this great country has to offer.

but the point seems to be also that a full three-year US law degree is useless in the US and a European law degree is useless in Europe. i even have the tax people coming after me because i can't afford to pay taxes, and i have defaulted on my student loans by paying them way lesss than the minimum monthly payment - i send them about $50/mth (the min is $575 incl UK loan repayments!!)

the up-side is that my employer, though me, got me the H1B and just two months ago i got my permanent residency/green card, so at least now i can quit jobs and take advantnage of the opportunities this great country has to offer.
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Turkued

Congratulations on the Green Card.

I did my initial degrees in the US followed by graduate work in Sweden and the UK. The Sweden degree seems worthless everywhere (despite the fact it was easily the highest quality), UK employers need the LLB and US employers see a lack of geographic stability (you'll just go back to Europe).

I have both EU and US passports.

I will say things do look better in the larger, more international cities (L.A., Miami, N.Y.). The "flyover states"...better to go to State U. than a top quality European school for your LLM.

Congratulations on the Green Card.

I did my initial degrees in the US followed by graduate work in Sweden and the UK. The Sweden degree seems worthless everywhere (despite the fact it was easily the highest quality), UK employers need the LLB and US employers see a lack of geographic stability (you'll just go back to Europe).

I have both EU and US passports.

I will say things do look better in the larger, more international cities (L.A., Miami, N.Y.). The "flyover states"...better to go to State U. than a top quality European school for your LLM.

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Inactive User

Hey all,
I must say congratulations as well on the Green Card!
I'm doing an LLM presently but I have no illusions about the US market at all. I kinda wonder why you didn't do your LLM in the UK and then try to get a decent job there. Were u also considering living in NYC when u did the NY bar, or did you do it cos of 'sound advice'? Every1 thinks the NY bar is 'crucial' for foreign lawyers, but I'm refusing to do it unless I find a 'tangible' basis for it (e.g. prospective jobs). I'm going to try to get a job in my home country b4 my LLM yr ends. If the US proves to be fertile, then I'll consider the options; if not, I'm on a flight home - though 'home' is far less comfortable.
I wish you guys the very best!

Hey all,
I must say congratulations as well on the Green Card!
I'm doing an LLM presently but I have no illusions about the US market at all. I kinda wonder why you didn't do your LLM in the UK and then try to get a decent job there. Were u also considering living in NYC when u did the NY bar, or did you do it cos of 'sound advice'? Every1 thinks the NY bar is 'crucial' for foreign lawyers, but I'm refusing to do it unless I find a 'tangible' basis for it (e.g. prospective jobs). I'm going to try to get a job in my home country b4 my LLM yr ends. If the US proves to be fertile, then I'll consider the options; if not, I'm on a flight home - though 'home' is far less comfortable.
I wish you guys the very best!
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JamesKeen

I tried to get a job in the UK. I'm a licensed lawyer there too (and citizen/passport holder). My thinking was that with an LLB and a JD (with good grades in both mind you - top 20% and top 30% respectively, and both from top tier law schools) and having passed both a US and UK bar exam, and speaking fluent English and German, that I might stand some chance of working for a large UK or US firm in London doing competition law or capital markets or some such. In spite of many applications however, I have never even been interviewed by a law firm, even a small one (US or UK) in the past decade (consisting of 6 years of legal education and going-on 4 yrs of practice).

When I spoke to a recruiter lately, he told me the same thing everyone else has. They look at my resume, tell me it looks good, and then ask why on earth I didn't start working for a large firm after I graduated?! (as if we have a choice). I tell them I don't know, and then they say that while I meet all the criteria for a career in international law, even surpass it in many instances, that I have shot myself in the foot by "deciding" to work for a solo practitioner for the last 3 years since graduating. They actually seem baffled.

I tried to get a job in the UK. I'm a licensed lawyer there too (and citizen/passport holder). My thinking was that with an LLB and a JD (with good grades in both mind you - top 20% and top 30% respectively, and both from top tier law schools) and having passed both a US and UK bar exam, and speaking fluent English and German, that I might stand some chance of working for a large UK or US firm in London doing competition law or capital markets or some such. In spite of many applications however, I have never even been interviewed by a law firm, even a small one (US or UK) in the past decade (consisting of 6 years of legal education and going-on 4 yrs of practice).

When I spoke to a recruiter lately, he told me the same thing everyone else has. They look at my resume, tell me it looks good, and then ask why on earth I didn't start working for a large firm after I graduated?! (as if we have a choice). I tell them I don't know, and then they say that while I meet all the criteria for a career in international law, even surpass it in many instances, that I have shot myself in the foot by "deciding" to work for a solo practitioner for the last 3 years since graduating. They actually seem baffled.
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Turkued

I have had exactly the same experience in both Europe and the States.

Sometimes I'm made to feel as if I personally insulted the recruiter by making some unconventional choices.

For what it's worth it seems academia is more appreciative of a diverse background than large or mid sized law firms.

I have had exactly the same experience in both Europe and the States.

Sometimes I'm made to feel as if I personally insulted the recruiter by making some unconventional choices.

For what it's worth it seems academia is more appreciative of a diverse background than large or mid sized law firms.
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Inactive User

Wow, $25,000 without benefits doesnt sound too good. You have your green card and at some point you have to decide when to move on. From personal experiences some employers get turned off if they feel you are too overqualified. You know you are qualified, no point in throwing it in their faces! So the first step I believe is for you to format (edit) your resume. Edit it in a way that would make prospective employers want to reach out (to you). Consider applying for jobs as a lateral attorney and also begin networking.

Can employers guess your age, gap in education when they look at your resume? If you have a long foreign name, have you considered shortening it? Do you put your citizenship status on the resume(s) you send out?

As a FTA, NY may be your best bet. However you must never tell recruiters that you dont know (as to why you didnt start working for a large firm). You have to find a better answer like I wanted to get first hand experience working for a solo practitioner... Its a goal I always wanted to achieve. Blah! Blah! whatever BS you have to give, give. But never say you dont know. Im not surprised they are baffled!!(smiles)

No matter what, don't give up, it's extremely frustrating(I've been there) but consider it a stepping stone. I had to volunteer, do community service before any employer would look at me in the States.
Best of luck.

Wow, $25,000 without benefits doesn’t sound too good. You have your green card and at some point you have to decide when to move on. From personal experiences some employers get turned off if they feel you are too overqualified. You know you are qualified, no point in throwing it in their faces! So the first step I believe is for you to format (edit) your resume. Edit it in a way that would make prospective employers want to reach out (to you). Consider applying for jobs as a lateral attorney and also begin networking.

Can employers guess your age, gap in education when they look at your resume? If you have a long ‘foreign’ name, have you considered shortening it? Do you put your citizenship status on the resume(s) you send out?

As a FTA, NY may be your best bet. However you must never tell recruiters that you ‘don’t know’ (as to why you didn’t start working for a large firm). You have to find a better answer like… ‘I wanted to get first hand experience working for a solo practitioner’…... ‘It’s a goal I always wanted to achieve…. Blah! Blah! whatever BS you have to give, give. But never say you don’t know. I’m not surprised they are baffled!!(smiles)

No matter what, don't give up, it's extremely frustrating(I've been there) but consider it a stepping stone. I had to volunteer, do community service before any employer would look at me in the States.
Best of luck.
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