hi--i'm an american aspiring law student;

can anyone comment on the reputation of this school? they have a new program that allows students to obtain a JD and and LLB in less than 3 years.

i'm wondering what the reputation of the school is in London? it looks like they try and partner with some "Magic Circle" firms to place their graduates there.

any remarks are welcome!

thanks,
janet

The College of Law has an excellent reputation but it shouldn't be confused with universities. The LLB is awarded once you've completed both your GDL and LPC at the College of Law. I don't think it's actually considered on a par with a three year law degree.

It offers LLMs but they're more professional than academic in nature. So if you want a prestigious qualification then it's probably not the best place to go. It's an excellent place to get the necessary professional qualifications needed to practice in the UK though. I loved my time there last year.

The College of Law allows you to get an LLB (not a JD) after completing a law conversion course (GDL) and an LPC or BPTC. This is primarily aimed at UK students who have studied a subject other than law at undergraduate level and wish to go into legal practice in England and Wales. An LLB from the College of Law is not an academic degree, the way an LLB from a real university would be. It may also be worth noting that it is not sufficient for sitting the NY Bar Exam (for which a real university LLB is required).
In addition, the LLB at the College of Law is quite expensive and many students have funding from law firms that they are due to join at a later date.
Hope this helps

on the website the school says they can award an LLB and JD degree to students in a new program that allows one to prepare for the NY state bar in addition to the UK bar. the program that confers the optional JD degree appeals to me.

i realize the college is not like a real university. i had applied to the LLB program at City University and been accepted, but i am under the impression that the College of Law is equally as good if not better a school than City University.

what do you think, between the College of Law and City University?

Hello, just wondering if you decided to go with and have more information about the program. I am from the US and also looking into attending this school. I also saw where it claims graduates are eventually able to practice in the UK and US/New York

Im from the US and have learned alot of info your looking for. Took me few years struggling here to figure it all out. but all seemed to workout for me. Anyway here's the low down on americans and the whole uk law school 'should i go or not question'. You'll save a ton of cash by going to the UK law schools and can finish faster than in the US. But only if you do it at the CoL. You'll probab;y know all this but if not figured i'd let you know. Public Universities in the UK are totally different than in the US. Their law degrees are 'academic' (50%+ of useless judges opinions) instead of all about the real law you'll need in practice.

But the CoL does it US style (all practice orientated law). And the CoL is the only UK law school that offers a JD (yes i said JD). Its brand new but taught by NorthWestern faculty they flew over to teach the students. NorthWestern (#10 law school in US News & World Report) !! But you have to start the whole programme at the CoL (i.e. year 1, 2, and 3) to get the JD....so no transfers. But you are just starting so its what your looking for. And the CoL JD lets you go strait to the NY Bar (no LLM, etc). So they are really head and shoulders above the other UK law schools. Even Oxford doesn't have a JD. Just the CoL.

I did the british llb at a public law school and left literally knowing hardly any law (it was a crap legal education....too much legal theory/judges opinions called obiter dictum). Interesting to read but useless in the Bar or in a firm for that matter.

After a lot of thinking i decided to try my luck with the CoL in London. I started latyear and did the GDL (yr 1), now Im on the LPC (yr 2) and will do the JD (yr 3) next year. And the JD builds on the GDl/LPC so its intense but only takes 6 mths to complete the 3rd yr (JD). So its reaally like 2 1/2 years instead of US 3 yrs. And its only gonna cost me $80K total (what a bargain)!!

They take stafford loans too just like the US so not to worry about tuition.

London is pricey rent wise (big time) but its an amazing city. its rains but only off and on......like 10-15 minutes then stops. They call it 'peeing'. It 'pees' like a couple times a day (almost every day).

but tons of clubs, pubs, nite life, west end musicals.....im sticking around.....i really have fallen in love with it.

But plan on like $1200 a month for rent for a 1bdrm with a decent flat relatively short commute to class.

but just to be clear if you wanna do the JD you have start your GDL (yr 1) at the CoL you cant transfer from another school and get the JD.....the NY Bar wont let them.

NY Bar said only CoL can do the JD track. Thats pretty much tells you its the best law school in the UK.

I am probably biased but i did go to a traditional llb uk law school first......and seriously the CoL has made me a much, much better lawyer (law student).

Like i interviewed at a magic circle firm lastyear after finishing the GDL. in the end i decided firm life is not for me and will start my own biz next year when i finish. But either way it provided me the opportunity if i did want that kind of life (but being married to a firm is not for me.....no 80 hr work weeks thanks). rather be me own boss.

But anyway i think thats all the basics. Wish somebody had told me these things before i came. But it all worked out in the end. I just happened to choose the CoL and now they have a brand new JD......im stoked!!

The last thing is the JD is just at the Moorgate campus (theres 8 in the Uk and 2 in London). But its the newest one, totally state of the art. So just another perk i guess.

Oh and there was a compare/contrast to Cuty University. I know people there and i been to it(lloked around). All i'll say is dont beleive the hype. Its ok......but in my opinion the CoL is head and shoulders above its competitors. And the NY Bar and NorthWestern seem to agree or they wouldnt have approved the JD (just at this law school.....no others) and wouldnt be flying there faculty over to teach the JD if they didnt think the collaboration wasn't gonna boost both schools rep's.

This was my good deed for the day.......hope it helped you.

cheers...

Please could someone clarify whether the above posts are, in reality, an advertisement for and by the College of Law?

Just to clarify......this is just my story of what happened to me so far during my time here in the UK from a students perspective. Not an advert for the CoL. Hope the posts can help shed a little light on a really big decision for any other americans thinking of heading over here for law school. There was no blog's about it when i started a couple years ago. So if hearing my mistakes along the way, etc can help you guys avoid the same mistakes (like an llb) i figured i would submit my post. In the end the decision is probably the most important one you will make (so far) and look into it alot before you jump in. But for me....in the end....coming to London has been one of the best choices i ever made. So if my post can help....was glad to offer it.

yours is an interesting case. may i ask why did you do a gdl if you already had an LLB? further, where did you read for the LLB?

Thank you for your post. I think it's neat you thought out of the traditional JD box.

That said, I would disagree that theory oriented LLB/JD degrees are useless. Memorizing black letter law is important, but (in litigation for example) the lawyer who knows the reason behind the seemingly applicable rule can offer persuasive reasons why the rule does not apply, should be changed, etc.

>>>"They take stafford loans too just like the US so not to worry about tuition."

Are the loans dispersed in USD or GBP? Is there a charge for currency conversion, etc., or do you repay them in GBP?

yours is an interesting case. may i ask why did you do a gdl if you already had an LLB? further, where did you read for the LLB?

I thought the same thing when i first arrived ( a few years a go). But the CoL JD is a new & unique alternative. Becuase the general UK LLB is an undergraduate degree. So the US requires you to (1) qualify in the UK first (do a 2 yr training contract at a firm) and then (2) get a LLM (masters of law) from a US law school. Which if you add it up adds 3 years on top of the 3-4 yrs the LLB took. Thats a long time to dual qualify in the US & UK.

But the CoL JD is just that.....a real JD (approved by the NY Bar). And so like a US JD you can get it and then fly out and take the NY Bar.....no fuss.....no muss. No need for the LLM, 2 yr training contract, etc. And once NY qualifed (pass the NY Bar) can easily come back and take the QLTS (UK Bar written transfer exam) completely side-stepping the need to do a 2 yr training contract. Shaving years off the old process!

As for UK JD raising eye-brows in the US......the biggest firms in the UK are the london offices of all the big US firms (magic circle). Be it there NY office, London office, etc.....the law is the same (common law). If anything the diversity, experience, etc a UK lawyer would bring to the table is if anything a plus.

It seems to be unique and that only bolsters an applications competativeness.

Atleast thats been my experience. It may not be for everyone. But for those students looking to broaden horizons a bit while in lawschool, London is a good place to plant your flag.

Being an american in london won't hurt your UK job prospects (at the big US firms in london) and being educated in London won't hurt your US job prospects (at the big NY firms). Now one can easily stay on in the UK with the CoL JD or easily head back to NY and take the Bar.

It seems a real option. One that was not really there before, when you would have too do a training contract, LLM, etc before being able to realistically dual qualify in the US & UK.

Just a follow-up to an earlier post. I had said the tuition for the JD (GDL/LPC/JD) was about $80K (USD), this was a typo.

It should have read total: $60K (USD). Which is like half (or more than half) the costs for a JD in the states.

Basically its about $20K a year.......the cheapest fee's in the US run about 30K-40K at least per year.

For anyone interested more info about the program can be found here: http://www.college-of-law.co.uk/Our-Courses/Juris-Doctor/FAQs/

It says it will be taught by Northwestern staff. This is good because like stated earlier they are top 10/11 in the US and known for international law which is what I'm interested in. I contacted Northwestern to ask them for advice and their thoughts on the program. I haven't heard back from them yet and with final exams/holiday it probably won't be for awhile, but I will let everyone know what they say.

I've been during research and for ppl who already have an LLB ( I unfortunately don't) they have a 2 year program where you can get your JD from them which might be worth looking into http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academics/jd/jd2.html

I'm curious if you don't mind sharing CoL Yank if the loans covered all of your expenses-books, room, school, food, etc

Does the ~$60,000 also account for international student rates because that can make a big difference in the cost

Is it correct that you have to practice for 2 years before being taking the QLTS?

Hey barely legal. The $60,000 for the 3 years JD is in US dollars. So $20,000 (USD) a year. I pay cash (not loans) but i did ask the CoL what people can get for loans, the process involved, etc and then just compared this to the tuition fees. The FAFSA is what you fillout and the Stafford loan is what you apply for. It gives $20K US Dollars (USD) a year.

A good money conversion site is http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/ to see what your dollars equal in pounds. But basically the CoL tuition covers the books too. So the loans you can get from the US government would cover your tuition and books. And just see the conversion website to see what would be leftover for you after tuition fees are taken out. The CoL said students get the balance dropped into their bank account. So you get $20K (USD) loaned and the GDL is 8K Pounds which equals 12K (USD). So thats $20K (USD) minus $12K (USD) for tuition/books. Which leaves you with 8K (USD) dropped into your bank for rent, bills, food....to use as you see fit.

So thats 8K (USD) to get you through the year for rent/food/train to school, etc.

I would say you'll need about $20K (USD) a year for food/rent/train, bills like internet and electric for your apartment, etc). So minus the 8K (USD) leftover from the loans you would need another $12K (USD) a year for all the other bills. So like private loans for the additional $12K (USD), or parents help, etc would be needed to fill in the gap.

Basically the loans cover everything except about $1,000 US dollars a month would be needed each month to get you through the year. Or less if you leave and go back home for the summer.

But i stay all year so my bills are for 12 months.

And for the QLTS which is different than the QLTT. The new QLTS does not need any 2 year training contract if you already have passed the Bar somewhere else (like NY, etc).

You can just fly back to the UK after you take the NY Bar, prep for a little bit, and take the QLTS exams and be dual qualified in the US/UK without ever having to do a 2 year training contract.

This is what im planning on doing.

I thought the same thing when i first arrived ( a few years a go). But the CoL JD is a new & unique alternative. Becuase the general UK LLB is an undergraduate degree. So the US requires you to (1) qualify in the UK first (do a 2 yr training contract at a firm) and then (2) get a LLM (masters of law) from a US law school. Which if you add it up adds 3 years on top of the 3-4 yrs the LLB took. Thats a long time to dual qualify in the US & UK.

IBut the CoL JD is just that.....a real JD (approved by the NY Bar). And so like a US JD you can get it and then fly out and take the NY Bar.....no fuss.....no muss. No need for the LLM, 2 yr training contract, etc. And once NY qualifed (pass the NY Bar) can easily come back and take the QLTS (UK Bar written transfer exam) completely side-stepping the need to do a 2 yr training contract. Shaving years off the old process!

As for UK JD raising eye-brows in the US......the biggest firms in the UK are the london offices of all the big US firms (magic circle). Be it there NY office, London office, etc.....the law is the same (common law). If anything the diversity, experience, etc a UK lawyer would bring to the table is if anything a plus.

I think you will find this article answers most of your queries. The CoL JD (US law component) is taught by NorthWestern faculty flown over to London from NorthWestern, i.e. faculty are from an ABA approved US law school. Thus, the NY Bar (and ABA) have fully approved the programme. So students simply finish the CoL JD and take the NY Bar....no strings attached.

http://www.college-of-law.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?id=5415&terms=jd

CoL Yank,

Fellow American here. I'm actually starting an LLB next year at a UK uni. And while obviously I haven't taken up any education in the UK, yet, I've done a fair amount of research and am very familiar with law as a career in the US. The path you've taken is very interesting---however, this definitely isn't something I would advise to most Americans...nor would I recommend the JD at CoL.

For an American path--the far better option would be to obtain an LLB at a UK uni, pickup a TC, and complete the LPC. With this option you gain the ability to practice law in the UK + gain work experience in the legal field. You can then sit for the NY bar without taking any additional qualifications (i.e an LLM). Even then, I'd rather gain an LLB in the UK then come to the US for an LLM vs. the GDL+LPC+JD. At least with this option, everyone of your degrees is employable. I'd be very suprised if anyone could gain employment in the US with the GDL+LPC+JD qualification from CoL. Don't forget that the UoL LLB allows one to sit the NY bar without any additional qualifications. I also think that an LLB from QMUL/LSE/UCL/KCL is more employable than GDL+LPC+JD qualification. Having a UK school teach a US JD is like having a US school teach a UK LLB--it just doesn't make sense.

To me the JD qualification from CoL is like Barbri teaching a bar prep course and awarding you a degree at the end--wouldn't have much credibility to US firms.

I understand your concerns with UK unis not teaching black letter law. This was actaully a selling point for me as I'd much rather pursue law in an academic environement (like in the UK) than study it as a vocation (like in the US). Aside from personal interest, it doesn't matter either way. A JDer from HYS is going to tell you he learned more from his first year working in the legal field, than 3 years on the JD. There is a movement in the US to make law school more applicable to practice, although this has only hit the tier 3 and tier 4 law schools. It would be a slim chance you'd see this at any of the the T14. I also think it is very dependent on where you picked up the LLB. Obviously an LLB from Oxbridge/UCL/LSE/Durham is going to give one a different academic expereince than an LLB from Manchester Met/London Met/Edge Hill.

For a Brits path--the better option would be to mirror the American path outlined above. Personally, I think the best route to American employment would be to get a TC at a firm with an American office. Work at the firm for a few years, and then try to get them to re-locate you to the US office.


"NY Bar said only CoL can do the JD track. Thats pretty much tells you its the best law school in the UK."
Ahh yes, the CoL beats out UoL schools and Oxbridge. The JD from CoL is not ABA accredited--so all it is is the CoL throwing a title on top of a prep course. The NY bar isn't saying that the CoL can award the JD (that power is only granted to the ABA). The NY bar is telling the CoL that their 6 month prep course can allow someone to sit for the NY Bar.

"and wouldnt be flying there faculty over to teach the JD if they didnt think the collaboration wasn't gonna boost both schools rep's."
It doesn't boost Northwestern's reputation--which is why it isn't heavily advertised on their website. My guess is they do this to try to get their rank up in the USNWR rankings--there's an international critereia.

"It seems to be unique and that only bolsters an applications competativeness."
If one were going for an MC, they would have already lined up a TC by the time the JD would even be a thought.