Hi all....okay, don't shoot me for all my posts...but I think I may be backing out of going to london this year. I feel so unprepared, no place to live yet, and still trying to get my loans processed. This is too stressful---another concern I have are the $$. What kind of career can I realistically expect after this--I'd be focusing on international law by the way. I just feel it might be a lot of $ for basically just a year abroad. I am coming back to the US, so does it make sense to do this? Thanks for any advice, you all are great :)

I'm a bit confused about your situation. Apparently Queen Mary has not offered you a room in their residence or have you decided to go elsewhere?

I expect to be doing the London LLM this year. I've lived in London before and it is not one of my favorite places on earth. It's crowded, polluted and is supported by a decaying public infrastructure. Above all: it is expensive. Particularly for an American.

I'm going there because in terms of i.p. and i.t. law the most famous "brand" of professor teaches there. I'm not kidding myself the educational quality will be there. The London LLM is a profit center for the schools. Papers? Forget it. Takes too many resources to grade and direct. One exam, 3 hours, minimal resource committment. Large lectures etc.

If you want an education in i.p. the regional schools (Bournemouth, Essex, Brunel etc.) are a better bet. And a lot cheaper to attend.

Regarding Queen Mary...international law? Unless you're in i.p. or i.t. law you're not exactly talking the school's area of expertise. If you can wait a year go to McGill or Stockholm or Helsinki or Upsala or Lund: a lot cheaper, better quality.

Accommodation is a nightmare in London. I've decided to show up day 1 of classes and worry about it then. No sense losing money in hostels in the interim. Don't forget: one exam, one year away. Plenty of catch up time.

Stafford loans are another nightmare. Have you found anyone at QMW or at a lender that knows what they are doing. I haven't. I'd be interested in hearing your experience.

In terms of whether to go or not...you need to ask yourself why you're going. For me, there are a few academics I want to experience while I quietly work on my own research. There are better places in Europe to learn international law a lot cheaper with better quality. Think Scandinavia.

Sorry if I'm a bit downbeat but if you can find what you want in Lund, Stockholm, Helsinki, Turku, Oslo, Copenhagen or even Lapland I'd go there. All of these schools offer English language Master of Laws degrees with little or no tuition with superior facilities and smaller classes. I'd suggest it may even be worth waiting for.

Almost forgot...

When LSE withdrew from the intercollegiate LLM a few years ago one of the reasons cited was the uneven quality of classes at it's partner universities.

Of course, some say LSE just wanted to make more money...

Sorry for the multiple posts.

This was from the LSE Department of Law newsletter on their decision to start their own LLM:

"We hope that the new programme
manages to offer a broad menu of
options covering the major areas of
law but with the opportunity for more
interaction, support and feedback
between teachers and students than had
been possible before. "

Simply put, the intercollegiate LLM was not of a standard LSE could tolerate.

Guys, I need some advice too. I am going to UCL but as yet, I am undecided as to which courses to take.
Does anyone know which Law courses UCL is reputed for; which famous Professors do they have and which areas do they lecture in. A year at UCL is expensive (close to US$50,000) and I am determined to make the most of it.
I will appreciate every advice as to how to benefit immensely from my UCL experience.
Thanks in advance

Hi there

Of course I respect that there are people who don't like London. I guess it's love it or hate it (I love it in spite of the disadvantages it certainly has), so I won't argue on this.

As to LSE - if you offer less courses and have less students and teachers, it follows logically that there's more interaction between people - the odds of "running into each other" are much higher. You simply can't have both. I don't think it's a question of standards LSE could or could not tolerate. It might have been a bit difficult to explain why an LSE student with two LSE and two KCL courses should pay double of what a KCL student with two KCL and two LSE courses would have had to pay, but this is me speculating...

At least at King's College you can replace one or two exams with essays. So it's not true that there are no papers. Unless you mean papers handed in as homework each week or so, I don't know if they do that. Wouldn't be different from German universities if they didn't, so no change for me :)

I haven't done my LLM yet, so I can't tell if the programme is as low-quality as you say, especially compared to LLM programmes at other universities - how should I know. However, I can't imagine why people who did their LLM at one of the UoL colleges would lie to me when they tell me it was fantastic and they learned a lot - among them a very successful lawyer who works at a large law firm ("KCL? Absolutely go there!"). I can't imagine why my professors would say "go to King's College London, it's great" if it was that bad.

I'm not from an English-speaking or common law country, so what an LLM can do for my career is quite different from (and probably more than) what it can do for a US-American or a Briton. No idea if it's worthwhile for you guys, for me it is.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky,

I wish you well there. As I mentioned I'll be there this year as well.

I don't mean to be so negative, just honest. The taught Masters produce revenue, the research degrees seem to be taken more seriously. In the U.K. money and academics are greatly intertwined.

Among the positives:

The British Library.

If you write a paper don't just use IALS and your Uni library. The British Library is an incredible resource.

Your fellow students.

The international dimension is fantastic. Cliques develop. Do your best to break through them.

Jobs

A lot of part time opportunities in law if you want.

Good luck!

I understand that there may be better schools, but having applied fairly late, I think it hurt my chances of getting into UCL and King's. I didn't think Queen Mary was such a bad school, I still heard some good things about it. They seem to have a pretty good Commercial Law Center in Central London, where I will be taking my classes....they have several that focus on Int'l Trade and Economic issues.

I also decided to go to London because it is a big city, and I love living in cities. I grew up in a suburb and went to college in a rural area so I have no desire to study in another suburb or rural area again. I also picked the UK because I speak English, and while there may be English speaking LLM's elsewhere, the countries you mention aren't english speaking. I really don't prefer to throw myself in that situation, I am already feeling nervous enough about going to an english speaking country, much less one that doesn't speak english.

I mostly was concerned about how an LLM and one year abroad would impact my life. Would I find it worth it, or would I regret it? I am not as concerned about the school rep, I think QM still does a good job of teaching, otherwise it wouldn't be ranked as highly as it is on The Time and Guardian for lawschool. I know it's not way at the top, but it is #9 on one and #19 on the other, and that really can't been considered bad in my opinion.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing more about the City of London itself....I am currently trying to find a place to live. I'd like to live in N1 (islington, barnsbury, hoxton) but still haven't found a place to live. Everyone that needs flatmates seems to be in Finsbury Park, which is a bit more north than I'd want to be. Can anyone tell me where the actual accomodations are located?

Also, fined, if you are showing up to look for accomodation on day 1, what are you going to do if you haven't found any by the end of the day?

If you haven't done so already, check out www.housing.lon.ac.uk (register for access to the databases), www.gumtree.com and www.loot.com (-> Property -> Rent SE England).

Good luck!

Nicky,

My experience (I'm on my 3rd degree) suggests that if you wait until the very start of classes you'll have more housing options than 3 weeks before. A lot of students back off attending alltogether or meet that very "special" someone during the first week or two and suddenly need to sublet or otherwise get out of their lease.

I don't expect to find a place on day one. I'll hop off the plane, go to the Bayswater/Paddington or Earls Court area and find a hotel for about 20-25 quid a night. It's gone upmarket but there are still a lot of budget hotels in the area. They used to be the big Aussie area sin town. In London I've always found that the Australians always know where the budget neighborhoods currently are. Many come to London for 2-3 year working holidays. I have no idea where or if they migrate to now but that will be my first inquiry.

Location is a big question for me as for everyone. Charterhouse Square is not exactly a budget lodgers paradise. For our purposes the Mile End campus will rarely matter. You might want to consider the location of Russell Square and the IALS library as well as the Charterhouse Square location in your accommodation consideration. In reality, the tube is usually efficient and location is less important than it would be in, say, Los Angeles. Find a place and people you're comfortable with.

Re. Islington. In past years I've been able to get access to the City University accommodation office by showing up onsite and acting like I belonged. You'll get a visitors pass when you enter the building but stash it in your pocket and act like a student :) City specializes in the areas you're looking into.

Having said that it's hard to generalize about London and areas. I've lived in Kilburn in the past. Look on the boards and you'll see lots of negative comments. Yet I had a beautiful flat overlooking a cricket ground! That taught me that in London you need to look at the flat rather than generalize about the neighborhood.

Re. Q.M. The Centre for Commercial Law Studies is part of but not of the University. It's its own little world and quite a good one at that. In other words, CCLS is better than QM. You'll have a lot of opportunities there outside of the classroom if you want them. As I said, I'm going there mostly to develop relationships with some of the academics there and to use the fantastic library resources of London.

How are your loans coming? If mine don't go quicker I may be posting about showing up on the 4th week of classes!

Hey Law Chick,

Firstly, UCL and KCL have excellent law departments. They are not stupid either. If they felt the inter-collegiate LLM was of low quality, they would have left. Pepole in Legal circles know that Queen Mary has an excellent law department by any standards. Thats why the other colleges are keen to carry on with the inter- collegiate LLM.

Secondly, a QM professor told me that the reason LSE pulled out of the LLM was nothing to do with quality but because they have a different strategic plan from the others.
LSE intends in the near future to become independent from UOL and this is a step in that direction.

Thirdly, as a potential LLM student myself, I must say that the London LLM is highly regarded in the UK and abroad. In fact i met loads of Americans during my time at QM who told me that QM was reccommended by their US professors. You need to take another look at the School of Law's website and look at the staff profile. This also includes the department of Law. Professor Alistair Hudson who's disfigured photo appears on my message is also world renowned.

Finally, having studied in London for 5 years, I must say that its been an incredible experience.

Hey everyone, well, my loans are hopefully coming along, the financial director at QM said she would try to process them as quickly as she could. I'd like to get the tuition paid by the 26th so I get the 2% discount and not have to worry about paying in the future. I am then getting a private loan to help me with the rest. There is this website, www.iefc.com, that specializes in helping US students get loans for abroad study. The financial director said she had heard fo them and that many of their students used that, I guess you'd say loan coordinator.

As for places to stay, I am so nervous....I have never been to London, and I have no idea what is a good area to live in. I heard Islington, Barnsbury, etc. were good areas, which is why I'm looking there. And they are close to QM's commercial law centre. I asked about Finsbury Park, because i have received a lot of offers from flats there (I posted a want ad for flat sharing). It seems a lot of young people live there....so is that a good area to live in?

Some of the classes at QM's commercial law centre look very interesting, and very useful. And there are some at King's I would really like to take as well. When I get back to the US, honestly? I don't think people are going to know the difference between UCL, King's and QM. When I talked to people about applying there, other than Cambridge and Oxford most people didn't know the difference betweent the rest...they had heard of all the Uni's of L and LSE, but didn't know how much better one was than the other. I understand that staying in the UK there might be a difference, but if I'm coming back here, I think the most important thing will be that I studied in London at a Uni of L....because that is the name people here know. In fact, I was watching someone speak on a news show about some int'l affair and what not, as a guest speaker, and when they flashed his name on the screen they flashed underneath it that he was a professor at the Uni of London (w/out the specific dept).

Anyway, more than the rep of the school I am considering the actual decision of going there and studying. It will be about $35K or so for me....that's just so much for one year. I just want to make sure int'l law is what I want to study...if it is, then I have no problem spending the $. I am getting further along in my career, and I am concerned about not having a chance like this again!

whoah, sorry for the long post! Anyway, I wanted to add that I have been looking at this website for flats.... www.moveflat.co.uk. It's very useful

So you're coming to London, Lawchick? You really have to, it would be such a pity not to have you at our party /pub crawl /"everybody reveal their real name"-get-together ;)
Take care and good luck at flat-hunting
Nicky

After laboring over the decision endlessly, I decided to go! I gave notice to my work this morning, have already given notice to my landlord...wow, I can't believe it.

I figured in the end, if anything, I will have spent a year in Europe--something I have never done. I'll get out of my "comfort zone" and learn a lot. If anything, I can always come back here to Philadelphia, my boss even said they would take me back. But I will probably be interested in a different field by then, so I will likely move to DC or NY. I am going to miss this job, but I'll stay in touch with them and probably visit when I am back.

So I hope to see you all there, I've already met up with another llm-guide poster here, so I'll at least know one person :)

Lawchick,

Congratulations on your decision. Could I ask you a bit about the loan process?

I'm coming from the U.S. as well and I'm still debating about where to go (QM, KCL, Essex). Frankly, QM is my first choice but I'm having trouble finding anyone to do the student loans quickly.

Did you start with the finance director there? Are you getting the money directly into your U.S. account or is it going to QM first?

My lender tells me it all can be done in 2-3 weeks if the school cooperates, up to 3 months if the require copayed checks. Anything you can share would be appreciated.

Hello everyone.

I graduated a year ago from law school in Colombia (my country) and I am looking forward to make postgraduate studies and one of my options is this UoL intercollegiate LL.M. My special interest lies on Intellectual Property as that has been my working area since I joined a local law firm 4 years ago as a student and a year ago as an associate. Thus, it seems that QMU would be my option in case I make the decision to go to London.

I have just read this discussion thread and thought it would be worthwhile asking you guys what are your reckons on the fact that the LL.M. only has four full-courses over the year it lasts since I've noticed that some universities in the U.S. and Australia offer approximately 8 courses over the year. Fufthermore, I don't know if any one can provide me with its views as if this LL.M. fulfills my specialization needs (IP).

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Sandrijuli

Isn't the tution lower at QM compared to King's and UCL? Does anyone know the exact amount?

Isn't the tution lower at QM compared to King's and UCL? Does anyone know the exact amount?