Oxbridge applicants


foxracing

Sabina please accept my sincere apologies for giving you a new name in the previous posting! :-)))

Sabina please accept my sincere apologies for giving you a new name in the previous posting! :-)))
quote
Yellow

I've said it before and I'll say it again I think there is a cut-off point below which they won't go. As far as I'm aware in the UK/Ire system the lowest they offer on is a 67%. Once you have established a minimum academic status then other things come into play. The truth of the matter is they have so many applicants for each place they don't have to take people with even average academics. They might offer a place on a 67 to a final year student who then for some reason only gets a 65 and appeals on a ground such as illness and let them in but that's the only situation in which I have heard of them letting in people on that kind of grade. I don't however know how they treat people whose degree is an average rather than final year mark.

I've said it before and I'll say it again I think there is a cut-off point below which they won't go. As far as I'm aware in the UK/Ire system the lowest they offer on is a 67%. Once you have established a minimum academic status then other things come into play. The truth of the matter is they have so many applicants for each place they don't have to take people with even average academics. They might offer a place on a 67 to a final year student who then for some reason only gets a 65 and appeals on a ground such as illness and let them in but that's the only situation in which I have heard of them letting in people on that kind of grade. I don't however know how they treat people whose degree is an average rather than final year mark.
quote
foxracing

Dear Sabina,

Thanx for the fast response.
I still have a question though:

You said :
"As far as I'm aware in the UK/Ire system the lowest they offer on is a 67%."
67 % means : you have to achieve 67% better than your classmates, or, the grades should be 67% of the best possible grade?

Dear Sabina,

Thanx for the fast response.
I still have a question though:

You said :
"As far as I'm aware in the UK/Ire system the lowest they offer on is a 67%."
67 % means : you have to achieve 67% better than your classmates, or, the grades should be 67% of the best possible grade?
quote
Kazaf

I got into both Oxford and Cambridge this year, but I have decided to read for an LLM at Harvard instead. I think it very true that Oxbridge accords very heavy weightage to academic grades. If you have outstanding grades, you are very likely to get in, even if your references are not spectacular.

Just for clarification: In the UK legal education system, marks are awarded out of 100. However, in reality, the 'effective marking range' is 0-80. Thus, any score above 70 (a 'first') is very, very highly regarded. For example, the top scorer on the BCL/MJur at Oxford will probably have an average of 74-76.

On a side point, I don't quite agree that Oxbridge are arrogant universities! :-) Their admissions tutors do have a really hard time picking between so many great candidates, so we really should cut them some slack!

I got into both Oxford and Cambridge this year, but I have decided to read for an LLM at Harvard instead. I think it very true that Oxbridge accords very heavy weightage to academic grades. If you have outstanding grades, you are very likely to get in, even if your references are not spectacular.

Just for clarification: In the UK legal education system, marks are awarded out of 100. However, in reality, the 'effective marking range' is 0-80. Thus, any score above 70 (a 'first') is very, very highly regarded. For example, the top scorer on the BCL/MJur at Oxford will probably have an average of 74-76.

On a side point, I don't quite agree that Oxbridge are arrogant universities! :-) Their admissions tutors do have a really hard time picking between so many great candidates, so we really should cut them some slack!
quote
Ren

Well yes, I had three references for my application:
1. The tutor I had for my final thesis which also was teaching on a couple of courses I'd taken so he knew of me but not personal enough. Also, we only had e-mail contact while I wrote my thesis. His reference was short and nice but not personal at all.
2. The director of studies at the Faculty of Law of my uni. That reference was as far away from personal you can get. Since she didn't know of me at all she only commented about the university and education in general.
3. Another lecturer which also works together with the government and EU commission. He also wasn't close so his reference wasn't personal at all.

(Then I also had two great written references from employers.)

Next year I will not ask one of these people to be my referees... but I also don't know who else to ask. What a dilemma =/


Hi again Sabina. Have you solved your reference problem yet? If not, I had a thought- what about going to one of your tutors or professors, explaining your situation, and trying to work as a paid research assistant on one of that person's projects? Then that person would have a better idea of your work and character. Good luck!

<blockquote>Well yes, I had three references for my application:
1. The tutor I had for my final thesis which also was teaching on a couple of courses I'd taken so he knew of me but not personal enough. Also, we only had e-mail contact while I wrote my thesis. His reference was short and nice but not personal at all.
2. The director of studies at the Faculty of Law of my uni. That reference was as far away from personal you can get. Since she didn't know of me at all she only commented about the university and education in general.
3. Another lecturer which also works together with the government and EU commission. He also wasn't close so his reference wasn't personal at all.

(Then I also had two great written references from employers.)

Next year I will not ask one of these people to be my referees... but I also don't know who else to ask. What a dilemma =/</blockquote>

Hi again Sabina. Have you solved your reference problem yet? If not, I had a thought- what about going to one of your tutors or professors, explaining your situation, and trying to work as a paid research assistant on one of that person's projects? Then that person would have a better idea of your work and character. Good luck!
quote
Hyugo

Wow!
I was beginning to give up a li'l on this llm board cos it was becoming a bit too lame...and look what I've missed! Welcome Kazaf (a friend of mine says she's been pleased to make your acquaintance at Harv. So, are you living the dream yet?); and, nice to know you're still there legaldocs.

Sabina: It's curious how much we have in common. We're about the same age and unfortunately, I also got rejected at Cam and Ox last yr (well, technically, only at Cam). The reference letter issue is a nightmare!!!
Here's my thinkin about everything: I believe that quotas exist. But unlike Harv. where there are country quotas, the quotas at oxbridge are probably smaller since they accept a fewer number of LLMs (I think). Be grateful you're in Europe. I have an undergrad degree from Nigeria and the chances are slimer still...
The 67% grade that's requested is probably nothing more than a base below which they can screen applications without having to go through the motions. Crossing it guarantees nothing. I know a couple ppl who crossed it by over 15% and still didn't get in...even from a country that grades like the U.K. where the theoretical highpoint is 100% but in reality never exceeds 87/88%. Everything counts - grades first; then, personal statement, refs, cv/additional written work, etc.
I totally feel you when you say you're not close to your professors. I had my name in the newspapers and my dean still couldn't place my face even though he taught me 2 courses in my final year; not until he saw me at the call to bar ceremonies - and that was only because he 'supervised' my thesis.
I'm going to apply to Oxbridge this year as well. And this kinda leads to what I want to ask...what are you doing now? I'm doing an LLM. in the U.S. so I'll get references from the university here. I read a recruiter's blog (aeons ago) that said personalized reference letters make such a different impact on the mind of the admissions committee. Is there ANYONE (relevant) that you can get a personalized reference letter from? You can try an alumnus - schedule an 'informational interview' and tell him/her your ultimate aim...I doubt that you can take up a research assistantship now...semester's started and posts are usually already settled. If it's possible though, jump at it. One of my professors wants to see my results after the first semester here as well as the amount of progress I'm making on my thesis by Dec. so she can give me a reference. Tedious, but fair; a bit late, but I don't have a choice.
After everything's been said and done, don't think you're the only one struggling through your problems. A lot of us are going through the same thing. I'm still having issues trying to get my transcripts out of the country!
Give it the very best shot you can. Write your Ox essay on something that relates to your field of interest; or something that shows you have a taste for nuances of distinction in legal analysis. I'm too bogged down with exam reading to write anything new so I'll lift something I wrote a while back...
Always remember, if you're being chased by a masquerade and you're getting tired, don't worry! ...the masquerade's getting tired as well!
Best of everything...

Wow!
I was beginning to give up a li'l on this llm board cos it was becoming a bit too lame...and look what I've missed! Welcome Kazaf (a friend of mine says she's been pleased to make your acquaintance at Harv. So, are you living the dream yet?); and, nice to know you're still there legaldocs.

Sabina: It's curious how much we have in common. We're about the same age and unfortunately, I also got rejected at Cam and Ox last yr (well, technically, only at Cam). The reference letter issue is a nightmare!!!
Here's my thinkin about everything: I believe that quotas exist. But unlike Harv. where there are country quotas, the quotas at oxbridge are probably smaller since they accept a fewer number of LLMs (I think). Be grateful you're in Europe. I have an undergrad degree from Nigeria and the chances are slimer still...
The 67% grade that's requested is probably nothing more than a base below which they can screen applications without having to go through the motions. Crossing it guarantees nothing. I know a couple ppl who crossed it by over 15% and still didn't get in...even from a country that grades like the U.K. where the theoretical highpoint is 100% but in reality never exceeds 87/88%. Everything counts - grades first; then, personal statement, refs, cv/additional written work, etc.
I totally feel you when you say you're not close to your professors. I had my name in the newspapers and my dean still couldn't place my face even though he taught me 2 courses in my final year; not until he saw me at the call to bar ceremonies - and that was only because he 'supervised' my thesis.
I'm going to apply to Oxbridge this year as well. And this kinda leads to what I want to ask...what are you doing now? I'm doing an LLM. in the U.S. so I'll get references from the university here. I read a recruiter's blog (aeons ago) that said personalized reference letters make such a different impact on the mind of the admissions committee. Is there ANYONE (relevant) that you can get a personalized reference letter from? You can try an alumnus - schedule an 'informational interview' and tell him/her your ultimate aim...I doubt that you can take up a research assistantship now...semester's started and posts are usually already settled. If it's possible though, jump at it. One of my professors wants to see my results after the first semester here as well as the amount of progress I'm making on my thesis by Dec. so she can give me a reference. Tedious, but fair; a bit late, but I don't have a choice.
After everything's been said and done, don't think you're the only one struggling through your problems. A lot of us are going through the same thing. I'm still having issues trying to get my transcripts out of the country!
Give it the very best shot you can. Write your Ox essay on something that relates to your field of interest; or something that shows you have a taste for nuances of distinction in legal analysis. I'm too bogged down with exam reading to write anything new so I'll lift something I wrote a while back...
Always remember, if you're being chased by a masquerade and you're getting tired, don't worry! ...the masquerade's getting tired as well!
Best of everything...

quote
jareya

hey...are you studying at columbia by any chance? cos I think we may have met...

hey...are you studying at columbia by any chance? cos I think we may have met...
quote

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