Duke or KCL?


beicon

Now that's what I call reasonable argument supported with facts... though NYC isn't actually stating any preference (neither expressly or implied), he stated something that's been tried and tested... US-based LLM programmes are basically a glance of a JD programme. UK LLM programmes on the other hand are separate graduate degrees (another reason why Ive chosen the UK my opinion, please dont shoot). Depending on what it is that you're aiming at, one or the other may suit you better.

Now that's what I call reasonable argument supported with facts... though NYC isn't actually stating any preference (neither expressly or implied), he stated something that's been tried and tested... US-based LLM programmes are basically a glance of a JD programme. UK LLM programmes on the other hand are separate graduate degrees (another reason why I’ve chosen the UK – my opinion, please don’t shoot). Depending on what it is that you're aiming at, one or the other may suit you better.
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Thank you so much everyone. Your opinions and reason are really helpful. My decision will be made through my careful reflection beyond thoughtful reasons based on both personal reason and the reson you guys gave me.

Beicon, Judy Law,NYC_Chales thank you again for your interesting opinion with sensible reasons:)

Kerfuffle and Judy Law, I agree with you that there's no way LSE could be compared with Oxbridge...OK Oxbridge &LSE are great law school but no way in the same tier.

Judy Law you've opened my eyes to some funny fact! thank you!

Beicon,I just don't know how to thank you :)

Of course everyone I won't take bias opinion into consideration of my decision-making

Thank you so much everyone. Your opinions and reason are really helpful. My decision will be made through my careful reflection beyond thoughtful reasons based on both personal reason and the reson you guys gave me.

Beicon, Judy Law,NYC_Chales thank you again for your interesting opinion with sensible reasons:)

Kerfuffle and Judy Law, I agree with you that there's no way LSE could be compared with Oxbridge...OK Oxbridge &LSE are great law school but no way in the same tier.

Judy Law you've opened my eyes to some funny fact! thank you!

Beicon,I just don't know how to thank you :)

Of course everyone I won't take bias opinion into consideration of my decision-making
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catseye

Last year I was caught up in the same situation. I had to choose between US and UK and I must admit that it was difficult choice to make.

I had got offers from Vanderbilt with a scholarship of 18K, UCLA with 15K and KCL with no scholarship.

I chose KCL over the US schools because the Finance Module at Kings was very interesting and most of the professors have written books on the subject.

I initially thought that perhaps I didnt make the best choice and it would have been better to go to US but after coming to London and studyin at KCL i was convinced that KCL was the best choice for me.

I cant comment much about other courses at KCL but the professors teaching International Finance Law Module are really good. Professors like Ravi Tennekoon, Dalhusien and Ludwik Van Setten and amazing.

For Modules like Banking Law, Competition Law and IPR Richard Hooley, Richard Wish and David Lewywn are extremely well known.

Also from recruitment point of view, you should be aware that law firms in London especially Clifford Chance recruits a lot of students from KCL for training contracts but they are mostly the LLB students who make it to training contracts.

I suggest that you should really look at the modules that you want to study and then decide.

Duke is a very good college and so is KCL. Its really difficult to choose. Good luck!!!

Last year I was caught up in the same situation. I had to choose between US and UK and I must admit that it was difficult choice to make.

I had got offers from Vanderbilt with a scholarship of 18K, UCLA with 15K and KCL with no scholarship.

I chose KCL over the US schools because the Finance Module at Kings was very interesting and most of the professors have written books on the subject.

I initially thought that perhaps I didnt make the best choice and it would have been better to go to US but after coming to London and studyin at KCL i was convinced that KCL was the best choice for me.

I cant comment much about other courses at KCL but the professors teaching International Finance Law Module are really good. Professors like Ravi Tennekoon, Dalhusien and Ludwik Van Setten and amazing.

For Modules like Banking Law, Competition Law and IPR Richard Hooley, Richard Wish and David Lewywn are extremely well known.

Also from recruitment point of view, you should be aware that law firms in London especially Clifford Chance recruits a lot of students from KCL for training contracts but they are mostly the LLB students who make it to training contracts.

I suggest that you should really look at the modules that you want to study and then decide.

Duke is a very good college and so is KCL. Its really difficult to choose. Good luck!!!
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Thank you very much catseyes...
May I ask you sth?
how about life at KCL?
you have fun with your friend there?


Thank you again

Thank you very much catseyes...
May I ask you sth?
how about life at KCL?
you have fun with your friend there?


Thank you again
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Wheretogo_

I keep reinforcing this.

Law firms in London do not recruit LLM students. They will only do it IF you are a qualified lawyer in your country and you HAVE a substantial client base that will benefit the firm here.

With an LLM from the US you can participate in the law firm fair in NY and target around 125 employers worldwide. You can also target US firms in London which is a HUGE advantage.

At Duke you will have the opportunity to study a lot more modules than at Kings. Kings is a good school no argument here.

I am applying to schools in the UK as well, but I am also applying for schools in the US and if I get in the US I will not attend schools here mainly because I want to do more than just 4 or 5 modules.

Cat mentioned Vanderbilt which is such a great law school with an impressive course selection and located in the friendly city of Nashvile. The whole experience of studying in the US is far better than in the UK, that I will assure you. Campus, sports, people, different culture and interesting!

People have different arguments such as beicon, cat and everyone else. I just think the whole graduate student experience in America is amazing and I completely disregard comments such as" if you cannot go to Harvard or Yale in the US forget about doing an LLM there as it is not worth it" - This are people that are misinformed.

The schools equip you with a very good degree mixed up with JD students and you will have the REAL law school experience.

Regardless of your decision just make sure you won't regret.

I keep reinforcing this.

Law firms in London do not recruit LLM students. They will only do it IF you are a qualified lawyer in your country and you HAVE a substantial client base that will benefit the firm here.

With an LLM from the US you can participate in the law firm fair in NY and target around 125 employers worldwide. You can also target US firms in London which is a HUGE advantage.

At Duke you will have the opportunity to study a lot more modules than at Kings. Kings is a good school no argument here.

I am applying to schools in the UK as well, but I am also applying for schools in the US and if I get in the US I will not attend schools here mainly because I want to do more than just 4 or 5 modules.

Cat mentioned Vanderbilt which is such a great law school with an impressive course selection and located in the friendly city of Nashvile. The whole experience of studying in the US is far better than in the UK, that I will assure you. Campus, sports, people, different culture and interesting!

People have different arguments such as beicon, cat and everyone else. I just think the whole graduate student experience in America is amazing and I completely disregard comments such as" if you cannot go to Harvard or Yale in the US forget about doing an LLM there as it is not worth it" - This are people that are misinformed.

The schools equip you with a very good degree mixed up with JD students and you will have the REAL law school experience.

Regardless of your decision just make sure you won't regret.


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CR1

Wheretogo_ just 1 issue with your argument there... the US market is more LLM unreceptive than the English market...most senior US lawyers are completely LLM illiterate and the universities focus on JD courses and not LLM courses. The UK market is the opposite... although I agree it is very difficult to find a job in London now ...LLM or not!
As for the module selection, don't be fooled by the quantity.

Unless you go to a top 7 US university, UCL and KCL are better recognized and give better value for money

Wheretogo_ just 1 issue with your argument there... the US market is more LLM unreceptive than the English market...most senior US lawyers are completely LLM illiterate and the universities focus on JD courses and not LLM courses. The UK market is the opposite... although I agree it is very difficult to find a job in London now ...LLM or not!
As for the module selection, don't be fooled by the quantity.

Unless you go to a top 7 US university, UCL and KCL are better recognized and give better value for money

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Wheretogo_

Its on the contrary really.

I think law firms are very receptive of LLM students in the US not in the UK. In the UK an LLM is waste of money and time.

In the UK Universities also focus on undergraduates. I do think law schools in the US want LLM's to mix with JD's and in my view that is the deal.

As for modules I meant you are bound to study at least 9 modules not 4 or 5. Kings has a HUGE course selection and so does UCL. My point was that you study a lot more in the US than in the UK.

I am a little biased towards the US but you made your point.

Its on the contrary really.

I think law firms are very receptive of LLM students in the US not in the UK. In the UK an LLM is waste of money and time.

In the UK Universities also focus on undergraduates. I do think law schools in the US want LLM's to mix with JD's and in my view that is the deal.

As for modules I meant you are bound to study at least 9 modules not 4 or 5. Kings has a HUGE course selection and so does UCL. My point was that you study a lot more in the US than in the UK.

I am a little biased towards the US but you made your point.

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I think law firms are very receptive of LLM students in the US not in the UK. In the UK an LLM is waste of money and time.


I've said this a few times in other threads, but no one should expect to get a job in the US out of an LLM. Foreign attorneys with an LLM can only be admitted in two or three states (New York, California, maybe Massachusetts, possibly somewhere else totally random). The New York and California legal markets have been decimated and many attorneys from top American law schools have found themselves jobless. It is probably going to take five or more years at least for the job market to improve (if it ever actually improves - many people doubt it will ever be like it was). So, no matter what your credentials or what school you end up going to, it is going to be brutal trying to get a job as an LLM student. Maybe the LLM will help you get a job back in your home jurisdiction (where having an American LLM and possibly being admitted in New York or California is not so common), but it is highly unlikely that it will lead to anything in the US.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Just trying to make sure everyone knows the real state of the US legal market before they decide to spend $40k on an LLM. (For what it's worth, I have been telling the same thing to people I know considering applying to JD programs).

<blockquote>I think law firms are very receptive of LLM students in the US not in the UK. In the UK an LLM is waste of money and time.</blockquote>

I've said this a few times in other threads, but no one should expect to get a job in the US out of an LLM. Foreign attorneys with an LLM can only be admitted in two or three states (New York, California, maybe Massachusetts, possibly somewhere else totally random). The New York and California legal markets have been decimated and many attorneys from top American law schools have found themselves jobless. It is probably going to take five or more years at least for the job market to improve (if it ever actually improves - many people doubt it will ever be like it was). So, no matter what your credentials or what school you end up going to, it is going to be brutal trying to get a job as an LLM student. Maybe the LLM will help you get a job back in your home jurisdiction (where having an American LLM and possibly being admitted in New York or California is not so common), but it is highly unlikely that it will lead to anything in the US.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Just trying to make sure everyone knows the real state of the US legal market before they decide to spend $40k on an LLM. (For what it's worth, I have been telling the same thing to people I know considering applying to JD programs).
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CR1

this is what i keep saying to everyone as well
i have several friends with LLMs for GULC and CLS who have been looking for a job for more than a year now and not only in the US but in the UK and central Europe as well. I am doing my LLM now but I would advise against in these times ( i did it because i did not want to take the advice of everyone who warned me...:)

this is what i keep saying to everyone as well
i have several friends with LLMs for GULC and CLS who have been looking for a job for more than a year now and not only in the US but in the UK and central Europe as well. I am doing my LLM now but I would advise against in these times ( i did it because i did not want to take the advice of everyone who warned me...:)
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LSE_2010

CR1: It is not the llm that csn give you a job, but who u r and who do you known.

CR1: It is not the llm that csn give you a job, but who u r and who do you known.
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nok

I hope not all LSE students have your level of education LSE_2010...it would be too bad for the university

I hope not all LSE students have your level of education LSE_2010...it would be too bad for the university
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CR1

your post need no answer LSE_2010....! very happy you wrote it

your post need no answer LSE_2010....! very happy you wrote it
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Wheretogo_

CR1: It is not about doing the LLM or not!

Its about where! People are free to do even 3 LLM's if they want.

The original poster wants to take a decision. Whether do it or not will get a job is irrelevant.

CR1: It is not about doing the LLM or not!

Its about where! People are free to do even 3 LLM's if they want.

The original poster wants to take a decision. Whether do it or not will get a job is irrelevant.
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CR1

Wheretogo_: you can do 78 LLMs... if you're doing it for your personal culture or because you want to waist a year and $80K. But, if you think that the LLM will open MC or White Shoe doors for you then you have surprise coming your way. Be more receptive to comments made by lawyers who are doing or did their LLM in London or the US because you might actually open your eyes and see what's happening. Most of the lawyers in London or NY are working at Starbucks and former Partners are now working as fee earners so wakeup I'm just trying to help

Wheretogo_: you can do 78 LLMs... if you're doing it for your personal culture or because you want to waist a year and $80K. But, if you think that the LLM will open MC or White Shoe doors for you then you have surprise coming your way. Be more receptive to comments made by lawyers who are doing or did their LLM in London or the US because you might actually open your eyes and see what's happening. Most of the lawyers in London or NY are working at Starbucks and former Partners are now working as fee earners so wakeup I'm just trying to help
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Wheretogo_

Have you read the original post?

Its a decision based on location?

I think this person has made up her/his mind on doing one. Whether you are saying that former partners are washing staircases or not its not relevant.

He/She wants a decision on the location - not whether or not to do the LLM.

Have you read the original post?

Its a decision based on location?

I think this person has made up her/his mind on doing one. Whether you are saying that former partners are washing staircases or not its not relevant.

He/She wants a decision on the location - not whether or not to do the LLM.
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LSE_2010

unfortunately - Life is tough, and then you die.

When people cry out to me that's not what they wanted "what should I do?" I have long since lost my politeness....

CR1 - Looser, please shut up. Nobody wants to known if your boyfriend is washing toilets with a BCL from Oxbridge.
Stop posting nonsense words.

Can anybody imagine a former partner from Allen & Overy working at satrbucks?

unfortunately - Life is tough, and then you die.

When people cry out to me that's “not what they wanted” "what should I do?" I have long since lost my politeness....

CR1 - Looser, please shut up. Nobody wants to known if your boyfriend is washing toilets with a BCL from Oxbridge.
Stop posting nonsense words.

Can anybody imagine a former partner from Allen & Overy working at satrbucks?
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Can anybody imagine a former partner from Allen & Overy working at satrbucks?


For a recent case I worked on, we had a team of about 100 contract attorneys helping us review documents. One of them was a former partner from a big New York firm who had been let go and was unable to find any other work in this economy. This was a guy with 20+ years experience and he had to take a job as a contract attorney doing doc review. It may not have been Starbucks, but it certainly wasn't the glamourous life you seem to think all big firm attorneys lead (trust me on this - I've witnessed about half of my friends being laid off from firms big and small).

<blockquote>Can anybody imagine a former partner from Allen & Overy working at satrbucks?</blockquote>

For a recent case I worked on, we had a team of about 100 contract attorneys helping us review documents. One of them was a former partner from a big New York firm who had been let go and was unable to find any other work in this economy. This was a guy with 20+ years experience and he had to take a job as a contract attorney doing doc review. It may not have been Starbucks, but it certainly wasn't the glamourous life you seem to think all big firm attorneys lead (trust me on this - I've witnessed about half of my friends being laid off from firms big and small).
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CR1

No no do the LLM and the Davis Polks would be waiting at your door step to hire you, don't worry.
As for LSE_, please keep posting, you're fun.

No no do the LLM and the Davis Polks would be waiting at your door step to hire you, don't worry.
As for LSE_, please keep posting, you're fun.
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catseye

I have noticed that while comparing Duke v/s KCL there are some people who have written things like going to KCL is like taking a holiday tour in Europe. I dont understand how the hell can somebody make such mindless statements on this forum.

BTW, I know a few people from LSE ...who constantly miss their classes and do go travelling for a week to some parts of Europe, dont care so much about studies, so what do you have to say about them. Its not LSE's fault that they are missing classes , its something very personal and college should never be blamed for that. I am sure such students are there in all colleges. At postgraduate level no college will force you to study. LLM is one year course and if you are not focused, then you are in trouble at the end of the end.

I am at KCL and trust me people, there is no way that you can afford to slack down in your studies. If you dont read regularly, you definitely will find it hard to go along with the course, the course is extremely demanding its not easy.


Am not giving my view as to which college you should go into CR1, am sure you will make a sound judgement at the end of the day. I would only give you one advice that please dont ever make your decision based on the opinions of some mindless people.

Duke is a very good college and so is kings. Most importantly see the course modules and professors profile and that will help you decide.

Good luck!!!

I have noticed that while comparing Duke v/s KCL there are some people who have written things like going to KCL is like taking a holiday tour in Europe. I dont understand how the hell can somebody make such mindless statements on this forum.

BTW, I know a few people from LSE ...who constantly miss their classes and do go travelling for a week to some parts of Europe, dont care so much about studies, so what do you have to say about them. Its not LSE's fault that they are missing classes , its something very personal and college should never be blamed for that. I am sure such students are there in all colleges. At postgraduate level no college will force you to study. LLM is one year course and if you are not focused, then you are in trouble at the end of the end.

I am at KCL and trust me people, there is no way that you can afford to slack down in your studies. If you dont read regularly, you definitely will find it hard to go along with the course, the course is extremely demanding its not easy.


Am not giving my view as to which college you should go into CR1, am sure you will make a sound judgement at the end of the day. I would only give you one advice that please dont ever make your decision based on the opinions of some mindless people.

Duke is a very good college and so is kings. Most importantly see the course modules and professors profile and that will help you decide.

Good luck!!!
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