Difference in studying in England & Scotland


kl18
I come from Hong Kong and i obtain an LLM offer from University of Edinburgh and UCL. Actually i like the subject in Edinburgh. Disregard their law school ranking, i want to know what is the difference on the opportunity on 1. join a LPC course in England, 2. join a law firm in England and 3. join a law firm in other places in Europe afterward.

How large is the difference between English law and Scottish law at the LLM level?
I come from Hong Kong and i obtain an LLM offer from University of Edinburgh and UCL. Actually i like the subject in Edinburgh. Disregard their law school ranking, i want to know what is the difference on the opportunity on 1. join a LPC course in England, 2. join a law firm in England and 3. join a law firm in other places in Europe afterward.

How large is the difference between English law and Scottish law at the LLM level?
quote
MathiasW
Hallo kl18

Maybe this is a little help:



General

Honoré Daumier:
Scots law is the law of Scotland. It is a unique system with ancient roots and has a basis in Roman law, combining features of both uncodified Civil law dating back to the Corpus Juris Civilis and common law with medieval sources. Thus Scotland has a pluralistic legal system, comparable to that of Quebec, Louisiana and South Africa. Since 1707 it has shared a legislature with the rest of the United Kingdom. Both Scotland and England each retained fundamentally different legal systems, but the union brought further English influence on Scots law. In recent years Scots law has also been affected by European law under the Treaty of Rome, and laws can now be passed by the Scottish Parliament within its areas of legislative competence.

The principal division in Scots Law is that between public law involving the state in some manifestation, and private law where only private persons are involved. Public law covers constitutional law, administrative law and criminal law and procedure. Private law covers those defined under The Law of Persons, including children, adults, partnerships (where the partnership is a separate "legal person" from the individuals in it, which is not the case in English law) and limited companies.

Many Scots laws are simply part of the law of the land, for example murder and theft are not defined in statute as offences, but come under common law. This has sources in custom, in legal writings and in previous court decisions. Unlike in English law, the use of such precedents is subject to the courts seeking to discover the principle which justifies a law rather than to search for an example as a precedent.

The principles of natural justice and fairness have always formed a source of Scots Law and are applied by the courts without distinction from the law. Thus Scots Law does not have the complex construct of "Equity" applicable in England.

Certain texts, which come mostly from the 17th century, 18th century and 19th century can be used as authority in the courts in the absence of statute or case law. Their authors include Craig, Jus Feudale (1655) for feudal law, Stair, The Institutions of the Law of Scotland (1681) for civil law and David Hume (nephew of the namesake philosopher) for criminal law.

Laws can be set by both the Scottish and Westminster Parliaments, and also the European Union. Acts of the Parliaments can also provide for more detailed laws made by secondary legislation known as Statutory Instruments which are then passed through Parliament more quickly and simply than Acts.

Some statutes of the pre-1707 Scottish parliament are still in force, and are written in the Scots language. In 1999 a new devolved Scottish Parliament with legislative competence over any matter not reserved to the United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster was established. The Westminster Parliament remains the "sovereign legislature" as defined by Constitutional lawyers, retaining legislative power in relation to Scotland, but the new Scottish Parliament makes full use of the powers given by the devolution settlement to set laws affecting the domestic affairs of Scotland.

Private law
Contract
Contracts can be formulated by unilateral promise or bilateral agreement. The English requirement for consideration does not apply in Scotland, so it is possible to have a gratuitous contract where all the obligations are on one side.

Delict
Delict deals with the righting of legal wrongs in civil law, on the principle of liability for loss caused by failure in the duty of care, whether deliberate or accidental. While it broadly covers the same ground as the English law of Tort, the Scots law is different in many respects and concentrates more on general principle and less on specific wrongs. While some terms such as assault, defamation are used in both systems, their technical meanings differ.

The landmark decision on negligence, for Scotland and for the rest of the United Kingdom, is the Scottish case of Donoghue v. Stevenson (1932) which ended up being decided in the context of both English law and Scots law.

Mrs Donoghue had been enjoying an ice cream with ginger beer her friend had bought her in Mr Minchella's café in Paisley, when she emptied the opaque ginger beer bottle out and the decomposing remains of a snail emerged. Her distress and subsequent illness was such that she was determined to bring an action for damages - but the poor woman had no contract with the café proprietor as her friend had paid, so she sued the manufacturer for his negligence. The case of the snail in the pop bottle was taken to the House of Lords who found that the manufacturer does indeed have a duty of care, subject to restrictions. This decision had influence in many countries.

Property law
Scots Law of Property distinguishes between Heritable Property, such as land and buildings, and Moveables which includes physically moveable objects where title normally passed only on delivery, as well as moveable rights which includes intellectual property such as patents, trade marks and copyrights. It is worth noting that agreement on an offer for property purchase is legally binding, resulting in a system of conveyancing where buyers get their survey done before making a bid to the seller's solicitor, and after a closing date for bids the seller's acceptance is binding on both parties, preventing gazumping.

Legal system
Legal profession
The Scottish legal profession has two branches, Advocates and Solicitors.


Honoré Daumier: The Defender (ca. 1862-65)
Advocates
Advocates, the equivalent of the English Barristers, belong to the Faculty of Advocates which distinguishes between junior counsel and senior counsel, the latter also known as Queen's Counsel. Advocates specialise in presenting cases before courts and tribunals, with rights of audience before the higher courts, and in giving legal opinions. They usually receive instructions indirectly from clients through solicitors, though in many circumstances they can be instructed directly by members of certain (professional) associations.

Solicitors
Solicitors, more numerous, are members of the Law Society of Scotland and deal directly with their clients in all sorts of legal affairs. In the majority of cases they present their client's case to the court, and while traditionally they did not have the right to appear before the higher courts, since 1992 they have been able to apply for extended rights, becoming solicitor / advocates.

A solicitor also has the opportunity to become a notary public. These, like their continental equivalent, are members of a separate profession.

Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
This provides independent public prosecution of criminal offences in Scotland (as the more recent Crown Prosecution Service does in England and Wales) and has extensive responsibilities in the investigation and prosecution of crime.

Courts in increasing order of superiority
Criminal Courts
District Court
Sheriff Court
High Court of Justiciary
High Court of Justiciary sitting as a Court of Criminal Appeal
Civil Courts
Sheriff Court
Court of Session
Outer House
Inner House
House of Lords
Origins and historical development of Scots law
By the late 11th century Celtic law applied over most of Scotland, with Old Norse law covering the areas under Viking control (resulting in Udal Law still in force in Orkney and Shetland). In following centuries as Norman influence grew and feudal relationships of government were introduced, Scoto-Norman law developed which was initially similar to Anglo-Norman law but over time differences increased (especially after 1328). Early in this process David I of Scotland established the office of Sheriff with civil and criminal jurisdictions as well as military and administrative functions. At the same time Burgh courts emerged dealing with civil and petty criminal matters, developing law on an English model, and the Dean of Guild courts were developed to deal with building and public safety (which they continued to do into the mid 20th century). From the end of the 13th century the Scottish parliament of the Three Estates developed Statute Laws.

Continental influence
From the 12th century the replacement of the Celtic church by Roman Catholicism brought Canon law and Church courts dealing with areas of civil law, introducing Roman law based on 6th century law from the Eastern Roman empire of Justinian. This influence extended as Medieval Scots students of Civil or Canon Law mostly went abroad, to universities in Italy, France, Germany or the Netherlands. (The English universities, Oxford and Cambridge, were closed to Scots.) The University of St. Andrews, founded in 1413, included the teaching of Civil and Canon Law in its purposes, though it appears that little or no such teaching took place. The University of Glasgow (1451) was active in law teaching in its early years, one scholar there being William Elphinstone, who then studied abroad and went on to found the University of Aberdeen (1496) which taught canon law until the mid 16th century. Studying abroad continued to be the norm until the 18th century.

In the early 16th century a costly war pushed James V of Scotland to do a deal with Pope Paul III for funds in the form of a tithe on the church in exchange for agreeing to found a College of Justice, in 1532. By 1560 the Reformation removed Papal authority and Canon Law jurisdiction was taken over by the Commissary Courts, whose jurisdiction, along with that of the Scottish Court of Exchequer was subsumed into that of the Court of Session in the 19th century.

United Kingdom
The Treaty of Union of 1707, confirmed in the Acts of Union, preserved the Scottish Legal System, with provisions that the Court of Session or College of Justice (and the Court of Justiciary) ... remain in all time coming within Scotland, and that Scots Law remain in the same force as before. The Parliament of Great Britain was now unrestricted in altering laws concerning public right, policy and civil government, but concerning private right, only alterations for the evident utility of the subjects within Scotland were permitted. The Enlightenment then reinvigorated Scots law as a university-taught discipline. The transfer of legislative power to the Westminster parliament and the introduction of appeal to the House of Lords brought further English influence and it is sometimes stated that this marked the introduction of common law into the system, but Scots common law incorporates different principles and makes use of legal writings which predate the Union. Appeal decisions by English lords raised concerns about this appeal to a foreign system, and in the late 19 century Acts allowed for the appointment of Scottish Lords of Appeal in Ordinary. At the same time, a series of cases made it clear that no appeal lay from the High Court of Justiciary to the House of Lords. Nowadays the House of Lords legislative committee usually has a minimum of two Scottish Judges to ensure that some Scottish experience is brought to bear on Scottish appeals.

Scots law has continued to change and develop, with the most significant change coming with the establishment of the Scottish Parliament as described above.

I have been accepted by the University of Edinburgh, too. Maybe we will meet each other.

Bye Mathias
Hallo kl18

Maybe this is a little help:



General

Honoré Daumier:
Scots law is the law of Scotland. It is a unique system with ancient roots and has a basis in Roman law, combining features of both uncodified Civil law dating back to the Corpus Juris Civilis and common law with medieval sources. Thus Scotland has a pluralistic legal system, comparable to that of Quebec, Louisiana and South Africa. Since 1707 it has shared a legislature with the rest of the United Kingdom. Both Scotland and England each retained fundamentally different legal systems, but the union brought further English influence on Scots law. In recent years Scots law has also been affected by European law under the Treaty of Rome, and laws can now be passed by the Scottish Parliament within its areas of legislative competence.

The principal division in Scots Law is that between public law involving the state in some manifestation, and private law where only private persons are involved. Public law covers constitutional law, administrative law and criminal law and procedure. Private law covers those defined under The Law of Persons, including children, adults, partnerships (where the partnership is a separate "legal person" from the individuals in it, which is not the case in English law) and limited companies.

Many Scots laws are simply part of the law of the land, for example murder and theft are not defined in statute as offences, but come under common law. This has sources in custom, in legal writings and in previous court decisions. Unlike in English law, the use of such precedents is subject to the courts seeking to discover the principle which justifies a law rather than to search for an example as a precedent.

The principles of natural justice and fairness have always formed a source of Scots Law and are applied by the courts without distinction from the law. Thus Scots Law does not have the complex construct of "Equity" applicable in England.

Certain texts, which come mostly from the 17th century, 18th century and 19th century can be used as authority in the courts in the absence of statute or case law. Their authors include Craig, Jus Feudale (1655) for feudal law, Stair, The Institutions of the Law of Scotland (1681) for civil law and David Hume (nephew of the namesake philosopher) for criminal law.

Laws can be set by both the Scottish and Westminster Parliaments, and also the European Union. Acts of the Parliaments can also provide for more detailed laws made by secondary legislation known as Statutory Instruments which are then passed through Parliament more quickly and simply than Acts.

Some statutes of the pre-1707 Scottish parliament are still in force, and are written in the Scots language. In 1999 a new devolved Scottish Parliament with legislative competence over any matter not reserved to the United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster was established. The Westminster Parliament remains the "sovereign legislature" as defined by Constitutional lawyers, retaining legislative power in relation to Scotland, but the new Scottish Parliament makes full use of the powers given by the devolution settlement to set laws affecting the domestic affairs of Scotland.

Private law
Contract
Contracts can be formulated by unilateral promise or bilateral agreement. The English requirement for consideration does not apply in Scotland, so it is possible to have a gratuitous contract where all the obligations are on one side.

Delict
Delict deals with the righting of legal wrongs in civil law, on the principle of liability for loss caused by failure in the duty of care, whether deliberate or accidental. While it broadly covers the same ground as the English law of Tort, the Scots law is different in many respects and concentrates more on general principle and less on specific wrongs. While some terms such as assault, defamation are used in both systems, their technical meanings differ.

The landmark decision on negligence, for Scotland and for the rest of the United Kingdom, is the Scottish case of Donoghue v. Stevenson (1932) which ended up being decided in the context of both English law and Scots law.

Mrs Donoghue had been enjoying an ice cream with ginger beer her friend had bought her in Mr Minchella's café in Paisley, when she emptied the opaque ginger beer bottle out and the decomposing remains of a snail emerged. Her distress and subsequent illness was such that she was determined to bring an action for damages - but the poor woman had no contract with the café proprietor as her friend had paid, so she sued the manufacturer for his negligence. The case of the snail in the pop bottle was taken to the House of Lords who found that the manufacturer does indeed have a duty of care, subject to restrictions. This decision had influence in many countries.

Property law
Scots Law of Property distinguishes between Heritable Property, such as land and buildings, and Moveables which includes physically moveable objects where title normally passed only on delivery, as well as moveable rights which includes intellectual property such as patents, trade marks and copyrights. It is worth noting that agreement on an offer for property purchase is legally binding, resulting in a system of conveyancing where buyers get their survey done before making a bid to the seller's solicitor, and after a closing date for bids the seller's acceptance is binding on both parties, preventing gazumping.

Legal system
Legal profession
The Scottish legal profession has two branches, Advocates and Solicitors.


Honoré Daumier: The Defender (ca. 1862-65)
Advocates
Advocates, the equivalent of the English Barristers, belong to the Faculty of Advocates which distinguishes between junior counsel and senior counsel, the latter also known as Queen's Counsel. Advocates specialise in presenting cases before courts and tribunals, with rights of audience before the higher courts, and in giving legal opinions. They usually receive instructions indirectly from clients through solicitors, though in many circumstances they can be instructed directly by members of certain (professional) associations.

Solicitors
Solicitors, more numerous, are members of the Law Society of Scotland and deal directly with their clients in all sorts of legal affairs. In the majority of cases they present their client's case to the court, and while traditionally they did not have the right to appear before the higher courts, since 1992 they have been able to apply for extended rights, becoming solicitor / advocates.

A solicitor also has the opportunity to become a notary public. These, like their continental equivalent, are members of a separate profession.

Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
This provides independent public prosecution of criminal offences in Scotland (as the more recent Crown Prosecution Service does in England and Wales) and has extensive responsibilities in the investigation and prosecution of crime.

Courts in increasing order of superiority
Criminal Courts
District Court
Sheriff Court
High Court of Justiciary
High Court of Justiciary sitting as a Court of Criminal Appeal
Civil Courts
Sheriff Court
Court of Session
Outer House
Inner House
House of Lords
Origins and historical development of Scots law
By the late 11th century Celtic law applied over most of Scotland, with Old Norse law covering the areas under Viking control (resulting in Udal Law still in force in Orkney and Shetland). In following centuries as Norman influence grew and feudal relationships of government were introduced, Scoto-Norman law developed which was initially similar to Anglo-Norman law but over time differences increased (especially after 1328). Early in this process David I of Scotland established the office of Sheriff with civil and criminal jurisdictions as well as military and administrative functions. At the same time Burgh courts emerged dealing with civil and petty criminal matters, developing law on an English model, and the Dean of Guild courts were developed to deal with building and public safety (which they continued to do into the mid 20th century). From the end of the 13th century the Scottish parliament of the Three Estates developed Statute Laws.

Continental influence
From the 12th century the replacement of the Celtic church by Roman Catholicism brought Canon law and Church courts dealing with areas of civil law, introducing Roman law based on 6th century law from the Eastern Roman empire of Justinian. This influence extended as Medieval Scots students of Civil or Canon Law mostly went abroad, to universities in Italy, France, Germany or the Netherlands. (The English universities, Oxford and Cambridge, were closed to Scots.) The University of St. Andrews, founded in 1413, included the teaching of Civil and Canon Law in its purposes, though it appears that little or no such teaching took place. The University of Glasgow (1451) was active in law teaching in its early years, one scholar there being William Elphinstone, who then studied abroad and went on to found the University of Aberdeen (1496) which taught canon law until the mid 16th century. Studying abroad continued to be the norm until the 18th century.

In the early 16th century a costly war pushed James V of Scotland to do a deal with Pope Paul III for funds in the form of a tithe on the church in exchange for agreeing to found a College of Justice, in 1532. By 1560 the Reformation removed Papal authority and Canon Law jurisdiction was taken over by the Commissary Courts, whose jurisdiction, along with that of the Scottish Court of Exchequer was subsumed into that of the Court of Session in the 19th century.

United Kingdom
The Treaty of Union of 1707, confirmed in the Acts of Union, preserved the Scottish Legal System, with provisions that the Court of Session or College of Justice (and the Court of Justiciary) ... remain in all time coming within Scotland, and that Scots Law remain in the same force as before. The Parliament of Great Britain was now unrestricted in altering laws concerning public right, policy and civil government, but concerning private right, only alterations for the evident utility of the subjects within Scotland were permitted. The Enlightenment then reinvigorated Scots law as a university-taught discipline. The transfer of legislative power to the Westminster parliament and the introduction of appeal to the House of Lords brought further English influence and it is sometimes stated that this marked the introduction of common law into the system, but Scots common law incorporates different principles and makes use of legal writings which predate the Union. Appeal decisions by English lords raised concerns about this appeal to a foreign system, and in the late 19 century Acts allowed for the appointment of Scottish Lords of Appeal in Ordinary. At the same time, a series of cases made it clear that no appeal lay from the High Court of Justiciary to the House of Lords. Nowadays the House of Lords legislative committee usually has a minimum of two Scottish Judges to ensure that some Scottish experience is brought to bear on Scottish appeals.

Scots law has continued to change and develop, with the most significant change coming with the establishment of the Scottish Parliament as described above.

I have been accepted by the University of Edinburgh, too. Maybe we will meet each other.

Bye Mathias

quote
This is all very interesting.

I don't mean to be rude, but I would also say that studying English law is a lot more useful from an international perspective, as many former colonies (notably America) and commonwealth countries use the Common Law system of the English courts, which (as pointed out above) is quite unlike distinctive to civilian or quasi-civilian jurisdictions.
This is all very interesting.

I don't mean to be rude, but I would also say that studying English law is a lot more useful from an international perspective, as many former colonies (notably America) and commonwealth countries use the Common Law system of the English courts, which (as pointed out above) is quite unlike distinctive to civilian or quasi-civilian jurisdictions.
quote
MT
Depends on what you want. If you wish to enrich your culture and develop a transsystemical perspective that will turn you into a more complete and fulfilled professional, I would not say that studying *just* English law is so more useful... Also got an offer from Edinburgh (PhD), and am strongly considering the possibility. Cheers.
Depends on what you want. If you wish to enrich your culture and develop a transsystemical perspective that will turn you into a more complete and fulfilled professional, I would not say that studying *just* English law is so more useful... Also got an offer from Edinburgh (PhD), and am strongly considering the possibility. Cheers.
quote
AnnaC
I did my undergraduate degree in Scotland and have now been accepted to study the LLM at Harvard and the BCL at Oxford. During our Scots law degree, we covered a lot of English law. Many subjects such as company law, contract law and employment law are extremely similar in Scotland and England and therefore we studied English as well as Scottish cases. There tended to be a lot more case law in England and so many of our courses concentrated on English law.

It would probably depend what subject you are interested in as to whether studying in Scotland would be prejudicial if you then decided to work in England. However, in general, I don't think it is a disadvantage to study in Scotland. Indeed, you accumulate knowledge of two legal systems rather than just one.

Hope this helps
I did my undergraduate degree in Scotland and have now been accepted to study the LLM at Harvard and the BCL at Oxford. During our Scots law degree, we covered a lot of English law. Many subjects such as company law, contract law and employment law are extremely similar in Scotland and England and therefore we studied English as well as Scottish cases. There tended to be a lot more case law in England and so many of our courses concentrated on English law.

It would probably depend what subject you are interested in as to whether studying in Scotland would be prejudicial if you then decided to work in England. However, in general, I don't think it is a disadvantage to study in Scotland. Indeed, you accumulate knowledge of two legal systems rather than just one.

Hope this helps
quote
kl18
It really makes me confused. The offer Edinburgh give me is LLM Cyberlaw. Would it be "prejudicial" when i like to work in England? Is the difference large in this subject area?
It really makes me confused. The offer Edinburgh give me is LLM Cyberlaw. Would it be "prejudicial" when i like to work in England? Is the difference large in this subject area?
quote
AnnaC
Hi
Is it the LLM on Information Technology Law you have been accepted for? If so, it says...

"Sources will be drawn from the legal systems of Scotland, England, the UK, the US, the EC and Australia. Particular attention will be paid to the current efforts of the EU to respond to e-commerce e.g. the E-Commerce Directive which was been implemented in the UK in summer 2002."

I am not an authority on cyberlaw but I wouldn't think that studying in Edinburgh would be prejudicial to your prospects in England or abroad. It looks as if the course studies UK as well as EU law and therefore I suspect the remit of the course would be similar to that of a cyberlaw course in England. Edinburgh is a great place to study too. I don't, however, know the rules regarding applicants from abroad studying the LPC. I suspect you would need to do the CPE/GDL first (if I had intended to qualify as an English solicitor after doing a Scots law degree, I would have required to study the CPE/GDL although I would only have had to study 2 subjects (property and trusts) because Scots law students get exemptions from the rest). Sorry I don't know what the position is in repect of foreign students who have a Scots/English LLM.
Hi
Is it the LLM on Information Technology Law you have been accepted for? If so, it says...

"Sources will be drawn from the legal systems of Scotland, England, the UK, the US, the EC and Australia. Particular attention will be paid to the current efforts of the EU to respond to e-commerce e.g. the E-Commerce Directive which was been implemented in the UK in summer 2002."

I am not an authority on cyberlaw but I wouldn't think that studying in Edinburgh would be prejudicial to your prospects in England or abroad. It looks as if the course studies UK as well as EU law and therefore I suspect the remit of the course would be similar to that of a cyberlaw course in England. Edinburgh is a great place to study too. I don't, however, know the rules regarding applicants from abroad studying the LPC. I suspect you would need to do the CPE/GDL first (if I had intended to qualify as an English solicitor after doing a Scots law degree, I would have required to study the CPE/GDL although I would only have had to study 2 subjects (property and trusts) because Scots law students get exemptions from the rest). Sorry I don't know what the position is in repect of foreign students who have a Scots/English LLM.

quote
AnnaC
Having said that, can you not just sit the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test if you are already qualified in Hong Kong?
Having said that, can you not just sit the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test if you are already qualified in Hong Kong?
quote
Matthias
As for the LL.M. I wouldn´t think too much about whether England or Scotland is better. If you do your LL.M. in England you won´t even be remotely an expert in common Law afterwards, neither will you be an expert in Scottish law after a year. Studying in Scotland you´ll get the chance to learn a lot about common law too if you want, that´s all you need. Just look at the uni´s reputation, and especially Edinburgh is an excellent choice.

Btw. it´s Glasgow for me. Scotland rules anyway.
As for the LL.M. I wouldn´t think too much about whether England or Scotland is better. If you do your LL.M. in England you won´t even be remotely an expert in common Law afterwards, neither will you be an expert in Scottish law after a year. Studying in Scotland you´ll get the chance to learn a lot about common law too if you want, that´s all you need. Just look at the uni´s reputation, and especially Edinburgh is an excellent choice.

Btw. it´s Glasgow for me. Scotland rules anyway.
quote
Matthias
Thanks to my fellow namesake (almost) for that article! Hey, the cool names go to cool Scotland. Any questions left?

;-)
Thanks to my fellow namesake (almost) for that article! Hey, the cool names go to cool Scotland. Any questions left?

;-)
quote
C.Miller
What an excellent thread! I would say that, I work on the LL.M Innovation, Technology and Law (distance learning) - but I'm impressed with the answers given regards Scots and English law.


1. join a LPC course in England,

If you wish to become a practicing lawyer in the UK, an LL.M isn't the most obvious first choice... A two or three year accelerated LL.B would be a more obvious choice, then you could move on to an LPC or DLP. If you want the fastest way to practice in England, study in England, likewise with Scotland. If you qualify in either, it's not so hard to transfer (I'm told!)

2. join a law firm in England

There is a lot of interest in "CyberLaw" and IT subjects in UK Law firms and much of the work done is at the cutting edge of both legal research and practice as well as practical IT application. It's a "sexy" subject just now for sure.

3. join a law firm in other places in Europe afterward.

See above, if you plan to qualify quickly in the UK legal system, you need to consider alternative programmes. That's not to say that you can't do an LL.M first - you can - but if you are in a hurry to qualify, look elsewhere.

How large is the difference between English law and Scottish law at the LLM level?

The nature of the subjects covered, as mentioned by other posters above, is so international that a suitable postgraduate education could not be gained by focusing on Scots or English own interpretation and implementation of the relevant laws. Computer Forensics and Electronic Evidence, for example (click further information...) looks at legislation from around the world - CyberCrime is an international problem, and the relationship of international legal frameworks and international criminal law cannot be ignored. Likewise, IT Law, in a session about for example Electronic Contracts looks to the EU and International organisations, institutions, law and companies for case studies and reports and students are able to use any website (from any country) as a base for their activities.

But most importantly, as a postgraduate student you are expected to demonstrate a considerable understanding of the concepts, cases and research conducted during your studies, and if you are then able to draw meaningful conclusions and apply them appropriately to your own international jurisdiction, I'm sure that you'd be a favourite of the tutors! Original thought is always required at post-grad level.

If you want to discuss any particular aspect of the programme in more detail, please PM me and I can arrange a time and channel for discussions!

best of luck, and I look forward to welcoming you to Edinburgh this year -or better yet - as a distance learning student!
What an excellent thread! I would say that, I work on the LL.M Innovation, Technology and Law <a target="_blank" href="http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/distancelearning">(distance learning)</a> - but I'm impressed with the answers given regards Scots and English law.


<blockquote>1. join a LPC course in England, </blockquote>
If you wish to become a practicing lawyer in the UK, an LL.M isn't the most obvious first choice... A two or three year accelerated LL.B would be a more obvious choice, then you could move on to an LPC or DLP. If you want the fastest way to practice in England, study in England, likewise with Scotland. If you qualify in either, it's not so hard to transfer (I'm told!)

<blockquote>2. join a law firm in England </blockquote>
There is a lot of interest in "CyberLaw" and IT subjects in UK Law firms and much of the work done is at the cutting edge of both legal research and practice as well as practical IT application. It's a "sexy" subject just now for sure.

<blockquote>3. join a law firm in other places in Europe afterward. </blockquote>
See above, if you plan to qualify <i>quickly </i> in the UK legal system, you need to consider alternative programmes. That's not to say that you can't do an LL.M first - you can - but if you are in a hurry to qualify, look elsewhere.

<blockquote>How large is the difference between English law and Scottish law at the LLM level?</blockquote>
The nature of the subjects covered, as mentioned by other posters above, is so international that a suitable postgraduate education could not be gained by focusing on Scots or English own interpretation and implementation of the relevant laws. Computer Forensics and Electronic Evidence, for example (<a target="_blank" href="http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/distancelearning/" >click further information...) </a> looks at legislation from around the world - CyberCrime is an international problem, and the relationship of international legal frameworks and international criminal law cannot be ignored. Likewise, IT Law, in a session about for example Electronic Contracts looks to the EU and International organisations, institutions, law and companies for case studies and reports and students are able to use any website (from any country) as a base for their activities.

But most importantly, as a postgraduate student you are expected to demonstrate a considerable understanding of the concepts, cases and research conducted during your studies, and if you are then able to draw meaningful conclusions and apply them appropriately to your own international jurisdiction, I'm sure that you'd be a favourite of the tutors! Original thought is always required at post-grad level.

If you want to discuss any particular aspect of the programme in more detail, please PM me and I can arrange a time and channel for discussions!

best of luck, and I look forward to welcoming you to Edinburgh this year -or better yet - as a distance learning student!

quote
capa
Given that you are from Hong Kong, you should slready be versed in common law. Having said that, I would think potential employers, on the international level at least, would appreciate SKILLS rather than mere knowledge. Thus, given that scots law is a blend of common law and roman/civil law, I think it would add a wonderful international perspective in your skill base.
Given that you are from Hong Kong, you should slready be versed in common law. Having said that, I would think potential employers, on the international level at least, would appreciate SKILLS rather than mere knowledge. Thus, given that scots law is a blend of common law and roman/civil law, I think it would add a wonderful international perspective in your skill base.
quote
MathiasW
Thanks to my fellow namesake (almost) for that article! Hey, the cool names go to cool Scotland. Any questions left?

;-)



You are welcome! I totally agree with you ;-)
Where are you from?
<blockquote>Thanks to my fellow namesake (almost) for that article! Hey, the cool names go to cool Scotland. Any questions left?

;-)</blockquote>


You are welcome! I totally agree with you ;-)
Where are you from?
quote
I hate to be a dissenting voice once again, but Scots law really may be not that useful for an international student.

Yes, Scotland is a 'mixed' jurisdiction, and yes, Edinburgh and Glasgow are great places to study, but I would say that studying English law is a lot more useful for international purposes.

London remains a centre for financial services and shipping law in a way that Scottish places just aren't, and if you're from Hong Kong, the international dimension of study in London would be quite useful.

Practice in law in Scotland is also quite a niche activity - I think there's only 500 Scottish Advocates (equivalent English Barristers in practice, 10,000), and certainly not as many law firms with an international practise as diverse as the London Magic Circle.

But it's your decision - I've had friends go to Edinburgh and have a great time. I would, however, reiterate that Scottish law would be quite an unusual choice for an international student.
I hate to be a dissenting voice once again, but Scots law really may be not that useful for an international student.

Yes, Scotland is a 'mixed' jurisdiction, and yes, Edinburgh and Glasgow are great places to study, but I would say that studying English law is a lot more useful for international purposes.

London remains a centre for financial services and shipping law in a way that Scottish places just aren't, and if you're from Hong Kong, the international dimension of study in London would be quite useful.

Practice in law in Scotland is also quite a niche activity - I think there's only 500 Scottish Advocates (equivalent English Barristers in practice, 10,000), and certainly not as many law firms with an international practise as diverse as the London Magic Circle.

But it's your decision - I've had friends go to Edinburgh and have a great time. I would, however, reiterate that Scottish law would be quite an unusual choice for an international student.
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Matthias
Hallo Mathias, ich bin in Dresden! Und du? :-)

In response to studentbarista I (politely) want to disagree. I don´t see that an English education will do you any better in an international level than a Scottish education. Of course schools like Oxbridge will do you very good, but not because those are in England but simply because it´s Oxbridge. It is the name of a university that will do it, not where that very university is.

Furthermore I do regret that people often don´t see what the LL.M. year is also supposed to be. Of course you want to do a lot for your professional future, but you also want to have a great time being there. So you should not *only* look at which uni will impress your future employer the most. Also look at what places you are interested in, what culture you want to experience, what you want to do while being there (apart from studying of course). Do not only consider the academic/professional side. As for myself I don´t really see an English city that I am really interested to live in, except for London of course. I am much more curious to see Scotland, don´t know why, but I just know it is the perfect choice for me. I have a friend living there too who I am looking forward to see as often as possible, and so on.

Of course the perfect thing is when you choose a very good university COMBINED WITH your desired place. Speaking for Scotland both Edinburgh and Glasgow are excellent universities, also on a U.K. wide perspective (I admit that Edinburgh might have an edge, but again: I do not care at all for that).

Heck, if somebody is interested in geysers they should not hesitate to go to the uni of Reykjavik, I am pretty sure that that one will be just as impressive on their resume. MAKE YOUR DREAM COME TRUE IN THAT YEAR!

Make this year be perfect for you..., whatever uni you choose, be it a top school or a whatever school, if you feel it is the right decision, then it IS the right decision.
Hallo Mathias, ich bin in Dresden! Und du? :-)

In response to studentbarista I (politely) want to disagree. I don´t see that an English education will do you any better in an international level than a Scottish education. Of course schools like Oxbridge will do you very good, but not because those are in England but simply because it´s Oxbridge. It is the name of a university that will do it, not where that very university is.

Furthermore I do regret that people often don´t see what the LL.M. year is also supposed to be. Of course you want to do a lot for your professional future, but you also want to have a great time being there. So you should not *only* look at which uni will impress your future employer the most. Also look at what places you are interested in, what culture you want to experience, what you want to do while being there (apart from studying of course). Do not only consider the academic/professional side. As for myself I don´t really see an English city that I am really interested to live in, except for London of course. I am much more curious to see Scotland, don´t know why, but I just know it is the perfect choice for me. I have a friend living there too who I am looking forward to see as often as possible, and so on.

Of course the perfect thing is when you choose a very good university COMBINED WITH your desired place. Speaking for Scotland both Edinburgh and Glasgow are excellent universities, also on a U.K. wide perspective (I admit that Edinburgh might have an edge, but again: I do not care at all for that).

Heck, if somebody is interested in geysers they should not hesitate to go to the uni of Reykjavik, I am pretty sure that that one will be just as impressive on their resume. MAKE YOUR DREAM COME TRUE IN THAT YEAR!

Make this year be perfect for you..., whatever uni you choose, be it a top school or a whatever school, if you feel it is the right decision, then it IS the right decision.
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I tend to side with Matthias on this.

Plus in fact not much pure Scots Law is taught on the LLM courses. What you are being taught is EC law, competition law, cyber law, international commercial law, ect-these are not Scots specific subjects-hence there is no downside to taking an LLM in Edinburgh or any other Scottish University.

I have an Edinburgh LLM (and PhD) it never stopped me getting a job with a City law firm or working with the European Commission...in fact it was seen as a positive advantage in both jobs. The respect for a Scottish legal education is very high across Europe.

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
I tend to side with Matthias on this.

Plus in fact not much pure Scots Law is taught on the LLM courses. What you are being taught is EC law, competition law, cyber law, international commercial law, ect-these are not Scots specific subjects-hence there is no downside to taking an LLM in Edinburgh or any other Scottish University.

I have an Edinburgh LLM (and PhD) it never stopped me getting a job with a City law firm or working with the European Commission...in fact it was seen as a positive advantage in both jobs. The respect for a Scottish legal education is very high across Europe.

Dr. Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
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Reeta
I once read somewhere in a book 'the best roads in Scotland are the ones that lead to England'.

Well...sometimes when I call my Bank and get connected to someone at Glasgow call center, I have a really tough time understanding the scottish accent(so request that person to connect me to someone who is from England)...

I dread to think of a scenario where I start a course in some Univ. in Scotland and have a tough time understanding what the Lecturer is saying becoz of his Scottish (esp. Glasgow) accent...If I can sometimes have problem understanding the Scottish accent, I dread to think how people from Asia, Europe etc with cope while studying in Scotland.

Also Indian Law is practically the same as English law so at least students from India would be better off studying in England.

My choice to study is anyday London...very cosmopolitan city, great social life, good quality education...
I once read somewhere in a book 'the best roads in Scotland are the ones that lead to England'.

Well...sometimes when I call my Bank and get connected to someone at Glasgow call center, I have a really tough time understanding the scottish accent(so request that person to connect me to someone who is from England)...

I dread to think of a scenario where I start a course in some Univ. in Scotland and have a tough time understanding what the Lecturer is saying becoz of his Scottish (esp. Glasgow) accent...If I can sometimes have problem understanding the Scottish accent, I dread to think how people from Asia, Europe etc with cope while studying in Scotland.

Also Indian Law is practically the same as English law so at least students from India would be better off studying in England.

My choice to study is anyday London...very cosmopolitan city, great social life, good quality education...
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Matthias
Haha Reeta, indeed the accent issue was the only thing that kept me wondering whether I really want to go to Scotland or not. But at university you won´t hear an accent that is as broad as the one that is normally spoken. You should be aware that the teaching staff often is coming from other places too or has worked in other countries or places. So they are speaking a normal English. I talked to a Glasgow graduate and was confirmed that the accent is nothing you need to be concerned about. After all England has some bad accents too. In daily life you will get used to it very fastly.
Haha Reeta, indeed the accent issue was the only thing that kept me wondering whether I really want to go to Scotland or not. But at university you won´t hear an accent that is as broad as the one that is normally spoken. You should be aware that the teaching staff often is coming from other places too or has worked in other countries or places. So they are speaking a normal English. I talked to a Glasgow graduate and was confirmed that the accent is nothing you need to be concerned about. After all England has some bad accents too. In daily life you will get used to it very fastly.
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arun.s
rettha
i just wanted to confirm matthias views i am currently a student at the university of glasgow and i dont have a problem understanding the accent none of my teachers are sottish .Then ill also go the extreme of saying that scottish people are very nice and friendly(i am not going for a comparison with english)and with regards to the glasgow accent u will get acquainted in a matter of few months

so na bother and cheers
rettha
i just wanted to confirm matthias views i am currently a student at the university of glasgow and i dont have a problem understanding the accent none of my teachers are sottish .Then ill also go the extreme of saying that scottish people are very nice and friendly(i am not going for a comparison with english)and with regards to the glasgow accent u will get acquainted in a matter of few months

so na bother and cheers
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arun.s
reetha i am also form india and if u r going for commercial law the unis considering its truly international composition will not teach u local law .London is a nice place to study but for mee its insanely expensive
reetha i am also form india and if u r going for commercial law the unis considering its truly international composition will not teach u local law .London is a nice place to study but for mee its insanely expensive
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