BVC or LLM


viveka
My son is in his 4th year of law in punE, India. he wants to go into litigation. Was just wondering what would be a better option the BVC or the LLM

thanks
My son is in his 4th year of law in punE, India. he wants to go into litigation. Was just wondering what would be a better option the BVC or the LLM

thanks
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QSWE
Sir,
both BVC and LLM have thier own charm..

BVC has been the flagship course for any one intending to practice. But it has lost its relevance and charm as far as litigation in India is concerned. For one, all the procedural laws (CPC, CrPC, Evidence, Pleadings) are taught in India during law itself along with Ethics. On the other hand, LLB in England is more theoretical, at least, taking procedural or Evidence law is not compulsary in England during LLB (unlike in India). So, as far as Barristership is concerned, a dedicated Indan law student has all the practical skills (through Moot Courts, Internships, etc. all which is part of BVC and not LLB in England- not always though) to practice by the time he passes out from LLB. Unless you fall for that highly valued tag of Barrister, there is no other charm in pursuing BVC.

LLM, has its own benefits. One could attain knowledge at World's best universities and become a part of strong alumni groups. Many future lawyers see an LLM at a place like London or New York as a great chance for socialisation, which is an asset in Practice. One could take an LLM in certain fields like Human Rights, Comparative law, Constitutional Law, Tax, IP, International Law, etc- all these allow for specialisation in one's given field of choice, which can give a headstart in a field as competitive as law.

Plus, qualifying as a Barrister requires 2 years (and it is no fun doing the BVC but not qualifying as a Barrister.) 1 year of studies equals the cost of an LLM. The 2nd year, which includes pupilship for 6 months and another 6 months of work could be really tough for someone who doesn't have a base in Britain (cost wise that is).

I dont intend to sound discouraging though. Being Barrister sets one apart from the rest. Many CJIs have been qualified Barrister (though that has become a thing of the past). Many more judges and famous lawyers have done the BVC. Yet, increasingly, there has been a trend away from BVC and towards LLM.

Regards.
Sir,
both BVC and LLM have thier own charm..

BVC has been the flagship course for any one intending to practice. But it has lost its relevance and charm as far as litigation in India is concerned. For one, all the procedural laws (CPC, CrPC, Evidence, Pleadings) are taught in India during law itself along with Ethics. On the other hand, LLB in England is more theoretical, at least, taking procedural or Evidence law is not compulsary in England during LLB (unlike in India). So, as far as Barristership is concerned, a dedicated Indan law student has all the practical skills (through Moot Courts, Internships, etc. all which is part of BVC and not LLB in England- not always though) to practice by the time he passes out from LLB. Unless you fall for that highly valued tag of Barrister, there is no other charm in pursuing BVC.

LLM, has its own benefits. One could attain knowledge at World's best universities and become a part of strong alumni groups. Many future lawyers see an LLM at a place like London or New York as a great chance for socialisation, which is an asset in Practice. One could take an LLM in certain fields like Human Rights, Comparative law, Constitutional Law, Tax, IP, International Law, etc- all these allow for specialisation in one's given field of choice, which can give a headstart in a field as competitive as law.

Plus, qualifying as a Barrister requires 2 years (and it is no fun doing the BVC but not qualifying as a Barrister.) 1 year of studies equals the cost of an LLM. The 2nd year, which includes pupilship for 6 months and another 6 months of work could be really tough for someone who doesn't have a base in Britain (cost wise that is).

I dont intend to sound discouraging though. Being Barrister sets one apart from the rest. Many CJIs have been qualified Barrister (though that has become a thing of the past). Many more judges and famous lawyers have done the BVC. Yet, increasingly, there has been a trend away from BVC and towards LLM.

Regards.
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Big Suze
I must point out that the BVC is not the flagship course for anyone intending to practice, at least in the UK. I also must point out that getting a pupillage is very, very difficult. My boyfriend is American and we have both come to the conclusion that becoming a barrister in the UK is unfortunately a very English-only thing. That's not to say your son would not be in with a good shot, but regrettably I have never met a barrister or a pupil who is not English. There is not much point doing the BVC if you can't get a pupillage and you want to practice. I would suggest, as a possible alternative to the LLM or BVC, pursuing the Legal Practice Course (LPC) which only takes one year and qualifies you as a solicitor. The majority of law graduates take this course and there are many opportunities to work for a firm in India or elsewhere abroad. I would say that in the UK, it is the LPC, not the BVC, which is the 'flagship' course for anyone intending to practice.
I must point out that the BVC is not the flagship course for anyone intending to practice, at least in the UK. I also must point out that getting a pupillage is very, very difficult. My boyfriend is American and we have both come to the conclusion that becoming a barrister in the UK is unfortunately a very English-only thing. That's not to say your son would not be in with a good shot, but regrettably I have never met a barrister or a pupil who is not English. There is not much point doing the BVC if you can't get a pupillage and you want to practice. I would suggest, as a possible alternative to the LLM or BVC, pursuing the Legal Practice Course (LPC) which only takes one year and qualifies you as a solicitor. The majority of law graduates take this course and there are many opportunities to work for a firm in India or elsewhere abroad. I would say that in the UK, it is the LPC, not the BVC, which is the 'flagship' course for anyone intending to practice.
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QSWE
Big Suze, the reference was to litigation and not to work in a firm...
Big Suze, the reference was to litigation and not to work in a firm...
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Big Suze
Exactly. In the UK, the majority of litigation is handled by solicitors, not barristers. Here are a few examples:

http://www.allenovery.com/AOWEB/AreasOfExpertise/ExpertiseHub.aspx?aofeID=302&selectedPage=Litigation%20and%20Dispute%20Resolution&prefLangID=410

http://www.freshfields.com/news/mediareleases/mediarelease.asp?id=1701

http://www.linklaters.com/practiceareas/practiceareadetail.asp?practiceareaid=6&navigationid=5
Exactly. In the UK, the majority of litigation is handled by solicitors, not barristers. Here are a few examples:

http://www.allenovery.com/AOWEB/AreasOfExpertise/ExpertiseHub.aspx?aofeID=302&selectedPage=Litigation%20and%20Dispute%20Resolution&prefLangID=410

http://www.freshfields.com/news/mediareleases/mediarelease.asp?id=1701

http://www.linklaters.com/practiceareas/practiceareadetail.asp?practiceareaid=6&navigationid=5
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QSWE
I am sure your expertise as to the position is not misplaced and that you have great first hand experience of the same, but the question was in reference to the suitability/feasability of BVC and LLM with regards to litigation in India. I am sure no one intending to practice in India would want to take the LPC (which caters to the English law and not the Indian law).
I am sure your expertise as to the position is not misplaced and that you have great first hand experience of the same, but the question was in reference to the suitability/feasability of BVC and LLM with regards to litigation in India. I am sure no one intending to practice in India would want to take the LPC (which caters to the English law and not the Indian law).

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Big Suze
Do you think the BVC caters to Indian law? It doesn't. I am simply offering perhaps a more practical alternative - the LPC.
Do you think the BVC caters to Indian law? It doesn't. I am simply offering perhaps a more practical alternative - the LPC.
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QSWE
BVC imparts the core faculties like mooting, socialising, puppilage, evidence, etc. --more court oriented, LPC- imparts knowledge of maintenance of books, etc. -more firm oriented.. Solicitors' Firms handling major chunks of litigation is not the case in India (except for a couple of cities like Delhi, Mumbai or a few others- there too it is limited to representation of the bigger fish) .. majority of the cases are handled by independent counsel..

In any case, as I said in my first reply, neither BVC nor LPC fit the bill as far as India is concerned..
BVC imparts the core faculties like mooting, socialising, puppilage, evidence, etc. --more court oriented, LPC- imparts knowledge of maintenance of books, etc. -more firm oriented.. Solicitors' Firms handling major chunks of litigation is not the case in India (except for a couple of cities like Delhi, Mumbai or a few others- there too it is limited to representation of the bigger fish) .. majority of the cases are handled by independent counsel..

In any case, as I said in my first reply, neither BVC nor LPC fit the bill as far as India is concerned..
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Big Suze
Also, am I right in thinking Indian has a closed legal system so that you need to have a legal education in India in order to practice? How does that work?
Also, am I right in thinking Indian has a closed legal system so that you need to have a legal education in India in order to practice? How does that work?
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Big Suze
*India
*India
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QSWE
Yes, just like most other countries, India has a closed legal system where one is required to study the law before practising here.
Yes, just like most other countries, India has a closed legal system where one is required to study the law before practising here.
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Big Suze
Oh I made a typo in my previous post...I said 'Indian' when I meant 'India'
Oh I made a typo in my previous post...I said 'Indian' when I meant 'India'
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QSWE
Understood it later..
Understood it later..
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londonman
If you are not gonig to practise as a lawyer in the UK then no need for BVC/LPC. They are 'vocational' courses...

IF you really want to study in the UK then I guess LLM/ma/msc Law related would be your best bet.
If you are not gonig to practise as a lawyer in the UK then no need for BVC/LPC. They are 'vocational' courses...

IF you really want to study in the UK then I guess LLM/ma/msc Law related would be your best bet.
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What would you suggest an Indian Student like me...?

I have an LLM in Computer Laws from a very good Scotish University.
I am going to be qualified as a lawyer in India by July 2009.
I intend to come back and practice litigation in India

But before that I wish to have atleast3-5 years work experience in England...!

I wish to qualifiy for the SRA as soon as possible becoz it increase my Job prospects..!

My interest is Commercial Law and IT Law...!
(I have already received offers for Commercial Law from Many Universities e.g NTU, City, Kent, glasgow, Aberdeen, etc)

Should i go for the LPC course? or would you suggest me to go for the LLM in Commercial Law...?

What would employers (i.e. Solicitor firms or Law firms) perfer LLM or LPC ?
What would you suggest an Indian Student like me...?

I have an LLM in Computer Laws from a very good Scotish University.
I am going to be qualified as a lawyer in India by July 2009.
I intend to come back and practice litigation in India

But before that I wish to have atleast3-5 years work experience in England...!

I wish to qualifiy for the SRA as soon as possible becoz it increase my Job prospects..!

My interest is Commercial Law and IT Law...!
(I have already received offers for Commercial Law from Many Universities e.g NTU, City, Kent, glasgow, Aberdeen, etc)

Should i go for the LPC course? or would you suggest me to go for the LLM in Commercial Law...?

What would employers (i.e. Solicitor firms or Law firms) perfer LLM or LPC ?

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llegrand
Legal India, you won't be able to practice in England without the LPC- so if you want to practice next year- (start your training contract or just join a firm) you will need the LPC. Just make sure you realise you'll need two years if you do the LLM, because it means you'll inevitably need to do the LPC (only of course if you want to practice in the UK)
Legal India, you won't be able to practice in England without the LPC- so if you want to practice next year- (start your training contract or just join a firm) you will need the LPC. Just make sure you realise you'll need two years if you do the LLM, because it means you'll inevitably need to do the LPC (only of course if you want to practice in the UK)

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I have a similar situation like Legal India.

I have done my graduate studies from India. I have an LLB degree. Thus, I am a qualified lawyer in India.

Currently I am pursuing my LLM at QMUL in Commercial and Corporate Law.

I want to join Litigation in London for about 3-4 years max and then get back to India and practise Litigation.

I want to know what are the courses that I need to join What would you suggest an Indian Student like me...?

I am very confused whether I should take the GDL or BPTC (BVC) or Barristers.

How long will it take.

But before that I wish to have atleast3-5 years work experience in England...!

I wish to qualifiy for the SRA as soon as possible becoz it increase my Job prospects..!

Your comments will be very helpful. . .
I have a similar situation like Legal India.

I have done my graduate studies from India. I have an LLB degree. Thus, I am a qualified lawyer in India.

Currently I am pursuing my LLM at QMUL in Commercial and Corporate Law.

I want to join Litigation in London for about 3-4 years max and then get back to India and practise Litigation.

I want to know what are the courses that I need to join What would you suggest an Indian Student like me...?

I am very confused whether I should take the GDL or BPTC (BVC) or Barristers.

How long will it take.

But before that I wish to have atleast3-5 years work experience in England...!

I wish to qualifiy for the SRA as soon as possible becoz it increase my Job prospects..!

Your comments will be very helpful. . .
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Dashing_arien.
SRA is for GDL + LPC.... (not BVC).
You should apply for a certificate of Eligibility to SRA for the GDL couse. Then you should apply for GDL (1 year's course). On successful completion of the GDL you will be applying for LPC (for solicitors) and BPTC (for Barristers) ...(1 year's course again).
Once you complete your LPC or BVC you will be starting with your Training Contract with a Solicitor or Pupulliage with a Barrister.
However, if you intend to take this path. You have to apply for the training contract 2 years in advance. But, considering that you are already doing an LLM at one of the best places in UK you should NOT have much problems securing a training contract.

I recommend you act quickly. The first round to apply for the GDL course is over. You should immediately apply to the best colleges for GDL (irrespective of whether you want to do LPC or BVC). Again since you have an LLM that should not be a problem.

And I would further extend my recommendation (though not asked for) to say that you should go for Solicitors programme as when you go back to India you will be able to stil practice as a Solicitor as well as a Counsel....but if you do the Barrister's Course (where Goodwill in that particular court is an essential part) you will have to practice solely as a counsel when you come back to India and you will not be able to Solicit work from england to India. you Clientals will be restricted to sOME extent. However, this is only my view and you may completely disagree with it.
(ignore the spelling mistakes)
Dashing_arien.
SRA is for GDL + LPC.... (not BVC).
You should apply for a certificate of Eligibility to SRA for the GDL couse. Then you should apply for GDL (1 year's course). On successful completion of the GDL you will be applying for LPC (for solicitors) and BPTC (for Barristers) ...(1 year's course again).
Once you complete your LPC or BVC you will be starting with your Training Contract with a Solicitor or Pupulliage with a Barrister.
However, if you intend to take this path. You have to apply for the training contract 2 years in advance. But, considering that you are already doing an LLM at one of the best places in UK you should NOT have much problems securing a training contract.

I recommend you act quickly. The first round to apply for the GDL course is over. You should immediately apply to the best colleges for GDL (irrespective of whether you want to do LPC or BVC). Again since you have an LLM that should not be a problem.

And I would further extend my recommendation (though not asked for) to say that you should go for Solicitors programme as when you go back to India you will be able to stil practice as a Solicitor as well as a Counsel....but if you do the Barrister's Course (where Goodwill in that particular court is an essential part) you will have to practice solely as a counsel when you come back to India and you will not be able to Solicit work from england to India. you Clientals will be restricted to sOME extent. However, this is only my view and you may completely disagree with it.
(ignore the spelling mistakes)
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Panthro
Just to set a few things straight:

The LPC doesn't qualify you as a solicitor. You still need to complete a training contract.

An LLM is not required by any major UK law firm. Some firms might value it if it's from a prestigious university but it will be worth nothing if you don't have the equivalent of a 2:1 - they do not accept that a good LLM makes up for poor degree results.

The BPTC, as it is now called, is required to become a barrister. You can call yourself a barrister once you've completed the course but you will not be able to practice until you complete a pupillage - and 67% (I think) of people who complete the BPTC do not find a pupillage. It's so competitive and even English people struggle to get pupillages - I think around 70% of all barristers studied for their undergraduate degree at Oxbridge.

I can only speak for the UK but little prestige is attached to the vocational courses such as the LPC and BPTC - it's a requirement that you study them if you want to practice. I wouldn't suggest anyone studies them unless they are certain that they want to pursue a career as either a solicitor or barrister in the UK.
Just to set a few things straight:

The LPC doesn't qualify you as a solicitor. You still need to complete a training contract.

An LLM is not required by any major UK law firm. Some firms might value it if it's from a prestigious university but it will be worth nothing if you don't have the equivalent of a 2:1 - they do not accept that a good LLM makes up for poor degree results.

The BPTC, as it is now called, is required to become a barrister. You can call yourself a barrister once you've completed the course but you will not be able to practice until you complete a pupillage - and 67% (I think) of people who complete the BPTC do not find a pupillage. It's so competitive and even English people struggle to get pupillages - I think around 70% of all barristers studied for their undergraduate degree at Oxbridge.

I can only speak for the UK but little prestige is attached to the vocational courses such as the LPC and BPTC - it's a requirement that you study them if you want to practice. I wouldn't suggest anyone studies them unless they are certain that they want to pursue a career as either a solicitor or barrister in the UK.
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hi, I'm currently a 5th year student from India. I just wanted to know what the criteria is for applying for BVC and which colleges can I apply too.
hi, I'm currently a 5th year student from India. I just wanted to know what the criteria is for applying for BVC and which colleges can I apply too.
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