Best LLM for Competition Law


I couldn't agree more. I think this program is really valuable.
There are also other serious advantages and opportunities offered during the year : moot court competition participation, case law review publication, conferences on various issues (thx to the generosity of the professors), help to find a job/ internship.
And this is right, professors are often available to answer your questions.

I couldn't agree more. I think this program is really valuable.
There are also other serious advantages and opportunities offered during the year : moot court competition participation, case law review publication, conferences on various issues (thx to the generosity of the professors), help to find a job/ internship.
And this is right, professors are often available to answer your questions.
quote
Yun

I will comment on both posts above, but please note I did not follow any of these programs (Bruges or Liège), but I got admitted in both for next year. Though I know I will be choosing the CoE, Im still hesitant (well, isnt that quite a paradox?).

I do agree that the IP and Competition Law LLM in Liege is absolutely underrated; the excellence of lecturers and the focus of the program, appear sufficient to rank the LLM in my top 3 list for Competition Law (with Bruges and KsC, sorry about LSE but it just doesnt belong here). But again thats just my opinion, and as any of you, Im not able (nor am I willing) to follow all the programs which have been discussed.

I do believe that the choice between these two (CoE and IELS) depends on an applicants own perspective. Puting aside the quality of the lectures/seminars (which I would consider roughly equal considering the prestige of lecturers), the most attractive points of both programs appeared to be as being:

For CoE: Prestige, Network, Environment (campus life), in-depth Economic approach (through the European Law and Economic Analysis Program), general European Law study, better preparation for EPSO exams.

For IELS: In-depth IP Law coverage (25h max. at CoE), Smaller Groups, Highly cost-efficient program (around 800 compared to the 14.000 of Coe), Possibility of an internship instead of a master thesis (starting 2010-2011)

Considering all these points, and my personal perspectives, I consider the CoE to be slightly over the Institute of European Legal Studies, even though the extensive IP Law coverage and the possibility of an internship (not mentioning the tuition fees) appear quite appealing. I find it quite easy to eventually study IP and carry on internships after a one-year program at the College of Europe, while it is harder to benefit prima facie from the same prestige and network after the Liège LLM.

I will comment on both posts above, but please note I did not follow any of these programs (Bruges or Liège), but I got admitted in both for next year. Though I know I will be choosing the CoE, I’m still hesitant (well, isn’t that quite a paradox?).

I do agree that the IP and Competition Law LLM in Liege is absolutely underrated; the excellence of lecturers and the focus of the program, appear sufficient to rank the LLM in my top 3 list for Competition Law (with Bruges and K’sC, sorry about LSE but it just doesn’t belong here). But again that’s just my opinion, and as any of you, I’m not able (nor am I willing) to follow all the programs which have been discussed.

I do believe that the choice between these two (CoE and IELS) depends on an applicant’s own perspective. Puting aside the quality of the lectures/seminars (which I would consider roughly equal considering the prestige of lecturers), the most attractive points of both programs appeared to be as being:

For CoE: Prestige, Network, Environment (campus life), in-depth Economic approach (through the European Law and Economic Analysis Program), general European Law study, better preparation for EPSO exams.

For IELS: In-depth IP Law coverage (25h max. at CoE), Smaller Groups, Highly cost-efficient program (around 800€ compared to the 14.000€ of Coe), Possibility of an internship instead of a master thesis (starting 2010-2011)

Considering all these points, and my personal perspectives, I consider the CoE to be slightly over the Institute of European Legal Studies, even though the extensive IP Law coverage and the possibility of an internship (not mentioning the tuition fees) appear quite appealing. I find it quite easy to eventually study IP and carry on internships after a one-year program at the College of Europe, while it is harder to benefit “prima facie” from the same prestige and network after the Liège LLM.
quote
snoopy

If we're talking the UK, the best places are Kings and UCL. Not LSE.

If we're talking the UK, the best places are Kings and UCL. Not LSE.
quote

For CoE: Prestige, Network, Environment (campus life), in-depth Economic approach (through the European Law and Economic Analysis Program), general European Law study, better preparation for EPSO exams.

For IELS: In-depth IP Law coverage (25h max. at CoE), Smaller Groups, Highly cost-efficient program (around 800 compared to the 14.000 of Coe), Possibility of an internship instead of a master thesis (starting 2010-2011)


I don't say that CoE and KCL are not good universities (on the contrary!), but I just would like to give you some more information : the surroundings of the Faculty of Law (environement), and the student life in the city of Liège are outstanding (MANY student events are organized during the year).

An in-depth economic background is also provided (through the Aspects économiques du droit de la concurrence course). Seminar sized groups of students and the possibility to do an internship instead of writing a thesis are also some of the features of the LL.M.

All in all, I would say that yes, I agree with the prior contribution: CoE, KCL and Liège are probably the three best places to follow an LL.M in Competition (and IP) law in Europe.

<blockquote>For CoE: Prestige, Network, Environment (campus life), in-depth Economic approach (through the European Law and Economic Analysis Program), general European Law study, better preparation for EPSO exams.

For IELS: In-depth IP Law coverage (25h max. at CoE), Smaller Groups, Highly cost-efficient program (around 800€ compared to the 14.000€ of Coe), Possibility of an internship instead of a master thesis (starting 2010-2011)</blockquote>

I don't say that CoE and KCL are not good universities (on the contrary!), but I just would like to give you some more information : the surroundings of the Faculty of Law (environement), and the student life in the city of Liège are outstanding (MANY student events are organized during the year).

An in-depth economic background is also provided (through the Aspects économiques du droit de la concurrence course). Seminar sized groups of students and the possibility to do an internship instead of writing a thesis are also some of the features of the LL.M.

All in all, I would say that yes, I agree with the prior contribution: CoE, KCL and Liège are probably the three best places to follow an LL.M in Competition (and IP) law in Europe.
quote
cmars

Again, please note that it depends how serious you are. Places like UEA, Tilburg and LSE have closer integration of economic theory into their programmes. But if you don't have economics experience, then marquee names will do just fine (ask economists about the marquee places and their reputation for microeconomics and game theory, for instance...)

Again, please note that it depends how serious you are. Places like UEA, Tilburg and LSE have closer integration of economic theory into their programmes. But if you don't have economics experience, then marquee names will do just fine (ask economists about the marquee places and their reputation for microeconomics and game theory, for instance...)
quote

An objective element concerning the value of ULg's LLm program :

Thanks to the support of their professors, the team constituted by four actual students of the ULg's LL.M. , A-S. Come, M. Coquelet, W. De Vos and P. Sabbadini, won the finals of the Concours Lamy de la Concurrence in Paris at the French NCA.

An objective element concerning the value of ULg's LLm program :

Thanks to the support of their professors, the team constituted by four actual students of the ULg's LL.M. , A-S. Come, M. Coquelet, W. De Vos and P. Sabbadini, won the finals of the Concours Lamy de la Concurrence in Paris at the French NCA.

quote

The course program of the LL.M. in European Competition and IP law of the University of Liège has been redrafted for the 2010-2011 academic year.
It features more IP, and more competition law! It also features new teachers (which are all "big guns" in their field), and new opportunities for internship.

Direct link to the program booklet:
http://www.droit.ulg.ac.be/ieje/fileadmin/IEJE/Pdf/ULG-IEJEbr.pdf

The course program of the LL.M. in European Competition and IP law of the University of Liège has been redrafted for the 2010-2011 academic year.
It features more IP, and more competition law! It also features new teachers (which are all "big guns" in their field), and new opportunities for internship.

Direct link to the program booklet:
http://www.droit.ulg.ac.be/ieje/fileadmin/IEJE/Pdf/ULG-IEJEbr.pdf
quote
fr

quote

Quote : Liege does not have any top competition scholar I have ever heard of, could you name me at least one?!

At least, you admit that you do not know all big names in the field of competition law...

Check on the website before writing such things. : http://www.ieje.net.

Quote : Liege does not have any top competition scholar I have ever heard of, could you name me at least one?!

At least, you admit that you do not know all big names in the field of competition law...

Check on the website before writing such things. : http://www.ieje.net.

quote
fr

Liege student demanded me to edit my former postings where I praised a famous and outstanding professor as I had misinterpreted his intention.
This was the original message: Liegestudent argued: "However does that sole presence of professor Whish determine the value of an education programme ?
To know the true value of an education programme, you have assess the value of the whole faculty, not only of one teacher. Furthermore, I would add that places like the Kings College of London (KCL) or the College of Europe are often overrated. Yes, they have big reputations and big names. But what is the interest in having famous teachers who have no time to answer your questions or to talk with the students at the end of the course because "he has most important concerns" ?"

I had no intention to downgrade the value of Liege or his remarks.

Liege student demanded me to edit my former postings where I praised a famous and outstanding professor as I had misinterpreted his intention.
This was the original message: Liegestudent argued: "However does that sole presence of professor Whish determine the value of an education programme ?
To know the true value of an education programme, you have assess the value of the whole faculty, not only of one teacher. Furthermore, I would add that places like the Kings College of London (KCL) or the College of Europe are often overrated. Yes, they have big reputations and big names. But what is the interest in having famous teachers who have no time to answer your questions or to talk with the students at the end of the course because "he has most important concerns" ?"

I had no intention to downgrade the value of Liege or his remarks.
quote

Dear a_n,

Please, do not misinterpret what I said. Your post is unfair.

When I said, regarding Professor Whish's publication, that it was "his business after all", there was no implied criticism. I just said it was his business, he is a scholar. If you re-read my post you will see that I have not made any ad hominem attack and that I did not imply that Pr Whish is not approachable. (This criticism was targeted at other professors that I know.) I have never criticized Professor Whish. I also acknoweldged that he is an eminent scholar.

Now, regarding your post, you said:

Sometimes one top professor can make the full of a programme.

What can I answer ? I simply don't agree with you. According to me, this is just wrong. If you follow a one-year LL-M, you will probably have more than ten courses. One good teacher out of ten will not make your LL.M.
Besides, it is always important to have various, good teachers to balance one point of view with another.
Once again, I just can't agree with your statement, I am sorry.

Finally, if you look for big names in Liège, I can guarantee you that you will easily find some ;-) . You can for example look at the predigree of :
- Pr Jean-François Bellis, head and founder of the Van Baele and Bellis law firm, leading firm in competition law in Brussels.
- Pr Derenne, head of the competition dept of Lovells LLP
- Pr Hull, head of the competition dept of Covington&Burling LLP.
- Pr Van Gyselen, head of the competition dept of Arnold& Potter LLP, and ex-senior official at DG Comp.
The four of them are leading practitionners in competition law, and are used to represent clients before the Commission and the ECJ.
The LL.M. in Liège is practice-oriented, so most teachers are not scholars, but practitionners.

Cheers,

Dear a_n,

Please, do not misinterpret what I said. Your post is unfair.

When I said, regarding Professor Whish's publication, that it was "his business after all", there was no implied criticism. I just said it was his business, he is a scholar. If you re-read my post you will see that I have not made any ad hominem attack and that I did not imply that Pr Whish is not approachable. (This criticism was targeted at other professors that I know.) I have never criticized Professor Whish. I also acknoweldged that he is an eminent scholar.

Now, regarding your post, you said:
<blockquote>Sometimes one top professor can make the full of a programme.</blockquote>
What can I answer ? I simply don't agree with you. According to me, this is just wrong. If you follow a one-year LL-M, you will probably have more than ten courses. One good teacher out of ten will not make your LL.M.
Besides, it is always important to have various, good teachers to balance one point of view with another.
Once again, I just can't agree with your statement, I am sorry.

Finally, if you look for big names in Liège, I can guarantee you that you will easily find some ;-) . You can for example look at the predigree of :
- Pr Jean-François Bellis, head and founder of the Van Baele and Bellis law firm, leading firm in competition law in Brussels.
- Pr Derenne, head of the competition dept of Lovells LLP
- Pr Hull, head of the competition dept of Covington&Burling LLP.
- Pr Van Gyselen, head of the competition dept of Arnold& Potter LLP, and ex-senior official at DG Comp.
The four of them are leading practitionners in competition law, and are used to represent clients before the Commission and the ECJ.
The LL.M. in Liège is practice-oriented, so most teachers are not scholars, but practitionners.

Cheers,
quote
fr

However I do not see how, after his weird remarks, the Liegestudent convinced his professor, Nicolas Petit, to praise the same professor whom I was previously praising - anonymously- as one of the 'gods' of competition law on his own blog http://chillingcompetition.com/page/2/
thereafter with reference to me as 'chap' and to our whole discussion for which Petit received many comments saying that it is not his business to deal with anonymous comments. Why do you care after all if you are not the Liegestudent? Hmm...Bizarre!

As bonus his reaction on his own blog on July 16 to a court judgement ' Frankly speaking, this judgment is a mascarade.' and it ends with '4. **** off'
http://chillingcompetition.com/

So this is how you address the judges of the European courts and then you also teach courses to your students?!
I may offer you a clear conclusion: You are your own worst enemy and your behaviour is far away from the academic standards you aim to attain one day. Behave yourself in a resposible manner, dear professor Petit!
And I was really blaming myself for misinterpreting the Liegestudent posting.

However I do not see how, after his weird remarks, the Liegestudent convinced his professor, Nicolas Petit, to praise the same professor whom I was previously praising - anonymously- as one of the 'gods' of competition law on his own blog http://chillingcompetition.com/page/2/
thereafter with reference to me as 'chap' and to our whole discussion for which Petit received many comments saying that it is not his business to deal with anonymous comments. Why do you care after all if you are not the Liegestudent? Hmm...Bizarre!

As bonus his reaction on his own blog on July 16 to a court judgement ' Frankly speaking, this judgment is a mascarade.' and it ends with '4. **** off'
http://chillingcompetition.com/

So this is how you address the judges of the European courts and then you also teach courses to your students?!
I may offer you a clear conclusion: You are your own worst enemy and your behaviour is far away from the academic standards you aim to attain one day. Behave yourself in a resposible manner, dear professor Petit!
And I was really blaming myself for misinterpreting the Liegestudent posting.
quote
justme

The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London or the US

The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London or the US
quote

The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London

... or for those who have made the choice to follow an LL.M. in Competition AND IP law !

If you follow the course on Questions spéciales de droit européen de la concurrence, Bellis is just fine. Inside the Commission and in law firms you use English.

I don't understand your point. Do you consider it is impossible to discuss in English what you have learned in French ?

Feel free to criticise anyone, it is your freedom.

Once again, I haven't criticized any scholar. I have just said that, contrary to what has been previously sipported, one teacher (here, Whish, but it could be anyone else) does not make an LL.M.

but your evaluation is based on your own experience and therefore subjective.

...

most of the time practitioners speak about cases and they never finish their stories, even after classes, until they realise they must go back to Brussels.

Don't you think you overgeneralize here ? (Especially if you don't know the teachers in question)
Anyway, here, Brussels is next door ;-)

<blockquote>The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London</blockquote>
... or for those who have made the choice to follow an LL.M. in Competition AND IP law !

<blockquote> If you follow the course on Questions spéciales de droit européen de la concurrence, Bellis is just fine. Inside the Commission and in law firms you use English. </blockquote>
I don't understand your point. Do you consider it is impossible to discuss in English what you have learned in French ?

<blockquote> Feel free to criticise anyone, it is your freedom.</blockquote>
Once again, I haven't criticized any scholar. I have just said that, contrary to what has been previously sipported, one teacher (here, Whish, but it could be anyone else) does not make an LL.M.

<blockquote> but your evaluation is based on your own experience and therefore subjective. </blockquote>
...

<blockquote> most of the time practitioners speak about cases and they never finish their stories, even after classes, until they realise they must go back to Brussels.</blockquote>
Don't you think you overgeneralize here ? (Especially if you don't know the teachers in question)
Anyway, here, Brussels is next door ;-)
quote

The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London or the US


Thank you for this interesting and well-argued post.

So, according to you, if one chooses Liege, this is only after not being accepted in Bruges, OXbridge, London or in any US university ?

1) Is it just designed to diminish Liège 's reputation on this forum or have you any valid grounds?

2) If so, seriously, presenting your opinion as a fact is not working on anyone....

<blockquote>The LLM in Liege is for those who dont manage to get into Bruges, Oxbridge, London or the US</blockquote>

Thank you for this interesting and well-argued post.

So, according to you, if one chooses Liege, this is only after not being accepted in Bruges, OXbridge, London or in any US university ?

1) Is it just designed to diminish Liège 's reputation on this forum or have you any valid grounds?

2) If so, seriously, presenting your opinion as a fact is not working on anyone....

quote

Bruges without a doubt!

Been there done that ... toughest EC comp law programme around and I've studied at several institutions ...

Bruges without a doubt!

Been there done that ... toughest EC comp law programme around and I've studied at several institutions ...
quote

LLM in Liège.

But, the only valid point would come from somebody who has attended both.

LLM in Liège.

But, the only valid point would come from somebody who has attended both.
quote

Hey! Has anyone done the Distance Learning Postgraduate Diploma on EU Competition Law of King's College?? I am thinking of doing it so any feedback would be much appreciated. I'm a bit afraid of the fact that it is distance learning...

Thanks!!

Hey! Has anyone done the Distance Learning Postgraduate Diploma on EU Competition Law of King's College?? I am thinking of doing it so any feedback would be much appreciated. I'm a bit afraid of the fact that it is distance learning...

Thanks!!
quote
lextra

This is more for practitioners - regulators and law firms will fund it alongside work, and I think it is mainly of use to those already practicing competition law. I am starting this in October (funded by my employer, a regulator) and happy to offer thoughts later in the academic year.

This is more for practitioners - regulators and law firms will fund it alongside work, and I think it is mainly of use to those already practicing competition law. I am starting this in October (funded by my employer, a regulator) and happy to offer thoughts later in the academic year.
quote
lollazzo

Since Prof. Richard Whish has left King's College, do you think that KCL is still superior to UCL?

Main advantages

UCL:
Better Ranking, more modules, prizes for competition law

KCL:
better reputation in competition law, it seems to me that there is a bias in favour of this university.

Since Prof. Richard Whish has left King's College, do you think that KCL is still superior to UCL?

Main advantages

UCL:
Better Ranking, more modules, prizes for competition law

KCL:
better reputation in competition law, it seems to me that there is a bias in favour of this university.
quote

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