Admissions to LLM's


lawchick
Hi, I'm applying to the following schools (I know it is late, but deadlines are in June and I thought I'd give it a shot, you never know!): UCL, King's, Westminster. I am a licensed attorney in the US. What are the academic standards for getting into these schools from the US? And does work experience count? Also, anyone know about Queen Mary? I read on their website that it said academics only were considered for application.

Lastly, how is London Metropolitan Uni? I know it is not that good as the others, but is it a bad school? I had an application for that too, safety I guess.

Thanks in advance for any advice, I really hope I still get in somewhere even though it's late!
Hi, I'm applying to the following schools (I know it is late, but deadlines are in June and I thought I'd give it a shot, you never know!): UCL, King's, Westminster. I am a licensed attorney in the US. What are the academic standards for getting into these schools from the US? And does work experience count? Also, anyone know about Queen Mary? I read on their website that it said academics only were considered for application.

Lastly, how is London Metropolitan Uni? I know it is not that good as the others, but is it a bad school? I had an application for that too, safety I guess.

Thanks in advance for any advice, I really hope I still get in somewhere even though it's late!
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lawchick,

in one of the threads on this forum, there is a post that explains the grading system in the UK. you can seach the forum and use that to convert your grades.

how long ago did you get your JD? i looked into UCL, QM, London Met, and King's and remember seeing that references from employers were accepted if you have been out of school for a while. therefore, your experience might be considered in addition to academics.

i noticed that in an earlier post you asked about the age of LLM applicants. i am 30 and i just graduated from law school last week. i spent last summer studying at UCL and found that most (but not al!) students from the UK were younger. this was largely due to the fact that they received an LLB rather than a BA or BS in addition to a JD. i did not find that my age had any relevance while i was there.

since you are applying a bit late and sending your application from the states (as did i), i have a caveat for you...get all of your transcripts and letters of recommendation together and send them all at once yourself. do not rely on others. my application was held up for weeks because something failed to reach KCL and it was nearly impossible to learn what it was. i wound up having to resend all of my supporting documentation.

i hope this has helped you. good luck!
lawchick,

in one of the threads on this forum, there is a post that explains the grading system in the UK. you can seach the forum and use that to convert your grades.

how long ago did you get your JD? i looked into UCL, QM, London Met, and King's and remember seeing that references from employers were accepted if you have been out of school for a while. therefore, your experience might be considered in addition to academics.

i noticed that in an earlier post you asked about the age of LLM applicants. i am 30 and i just graduated from law school last week. i spent last summer studying at UCL and found that most (but not al!) students from the UK were younger. this was largely due to the fact that they received an LLB rather than a BA or BS in addition to a JD. i did not find that my age had any relevance while i was there.

since you are applying a bit late and sending your application from the states (as did i), i have a caveat for you...get all of your transcripts and letters of recommendation together and send them all at once yourself. do not rely on others. my application was held up for weeks because something failed to reach KCL and it was nearly impossible to learn what it was. i wound up having to resend all of my supporting documentation.

i hope this has helped you. good luck!
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lawchick
Wow, thanks a lot for that info! I really appreciate it. I graduated in 2002, and I have had significant work experience since then (a clerkship and nearly 2 yrs now as a civil litigator in a city firm). I just turned 29, so I was worried about whether I'd be a lot older than everyone else. I have already gotten all my stuff and will be mailing it out on Monday with transcripts, cv, etc. I have prepared applications online though and was thinking of submitting it that way--maybe I should send it with all the stuff together?

AS for my academics, they are not bad--I went to a top 20 college, semi-good lawschool (good in US but I don't think it would be known in the UK). Grades weren't bad but not great either, which is why I"m concerned about getting in. I know UCL and King's are competitive, but I wasn't as sure about Westminster or London Met. Haven't applied to QM, it might be too late for me to get all that stuff together, and I figured if I don't get into WEstminster, I probably won't get into QM.

SOrry, I am rambling here...I just really hope I get it! I'd like to do it this year as opposed to next...
Wow, thanks a lot for that info! I really appreciate it. I graduated in 2002, and I have had significant work experience since then (a clerkship and nearly 2 yrs now as a civil litigator in a city firm). I just turned 29, so I was worried about whether I'd be a lot older than everyone else. I have already gotten all my stuff and will be mailing it out on Monday with transcripts, cv, etc. I have prepared applications online though and was thinking of submitting it that way--maybe I should send it with all the stuff together?

AS for my academics, they are not bad--I went to a top 20 college, semi-good lawschool (good in US but I don't think it would be known in the UK). Grades weren't bad but not great either, which is why I"m concerned about getting in. I know UCL and King's are competitive, but I wasn't as sure about Westminster or London Met. Haven't applied to QM, it might be too late for me to get all that stuff together, and I figured if I don't get into WEstminster, I probably won't get into QM.

SOrry, I am rambling here...I just really hope I get it! I'd like to do it this year as opposed to next...
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29? you're still a baby! (hehe) i completely understand your excitement. the hurry up and wait part is killing me right now. i do not know how selective Westmister or London Met are, but i do know that UCL and KCL seem to be the favored schools. i loved UCL while i was there, and since KCL is also a division of the U of London, i expect it will be much the same.

i submitted the application itself online without problem, so i don't have any suggestion for you as far as that goes. i guess just do whichever you are more comfortable with.

what area are you going to specialize in? i am going into IP, so i am on the fence about whether i should go to london or california. i have heard conflicting opinions as to the value of an LLM from the UK compared to the US. unfortunately, one person went so far as to say that an LLM from the UK is worthless. i am not saying any of this to cause you worry, but rather to ask why you have your sights set on london rather than a school in the states?
29? you're still a baby! (hehe) i completely understand your excitement. the hurry up and wait part is killing me right now. i do not know how selective Westmister or London Met are, but i do know that UCL and KCL seem to be the favored schools. i loved UCL while i was there, and since KCL is also a division of the U of London, i expect it will be much the same.

i submitted the application itself online without problem, so i don't have any suggestion for you as far as that goes. i guess just do whichever you are more comfortable with.

what area are you going to specialize in? i am going into IP, so i am on the fence about whether i should go to london or california. i have heard conflicting opinions as to the value of an LLM from the UK compared to the US. unfortunately, one person went so far as to say that an LLM from the UK is worthless. i am not saying any of this to cause you worry, but rather to ask why you have your sights set on london rather than a school in the states?
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lawchick
Hey modest,

Thx for responding again...the truth is, I really want to study abroad. I know I could get an LLM here in the US, but I have always wanted to do something like this....I speak 3 languages (english, spanish, russian) studied foreign affairs in college, and just never got the chance to live abroad while studying and want to do it before I DO get too much older! Although I know it's expensive, I thought living and studying for an int'l law LLM in London would be great. I too have heard the same stuff about how an LLM from anything other than Cambridge, Oxford, LSE is worthless, etc., but I don't think that's true. I have been practicing just civil litigation the past 2 years. While I've had substantial litigation experience, I thought spending a year focusing on Int'l Law might help me break into the int'l law market, more so than without any int'l law background whatsoever. Regardless of what school I attend, if I learn about the int'l tribunals, int'l dispute resolution methods, etc., I expect I'd be more marketable as an int'l lawyer than I am now.

I really hope I get in either King's, UCL or Westminster, but I know it's getting late. Would being an American (i.e. Non-EU) help, since I'm paying more fees? Anyone else who's got input on those 3 schools, please let me know! Also, anyone know Queen Mary's deadline? Just wondering if I still have time to consider it. Thanks!
Hey modest,

Thx for responding again...the truth is, I really want to study abroad. I know I could get an LLM here in the US, but I have always wanted to do something like this....I speak 3 languages (english, spanish, russian) studied foreign affairs in college, and just never got the chance to live abroad while studying and want to do it before I DO get too much older! Although I know it's expensive, I thought living and studying for an int'l law LLM in London would be great. I too have heard the same stuff about how an LLM from anything other than Cambridge, Oxford, LSE is worthless, etc., but I don't think that's true. I have been practicing just civil litigation the past 2 years. While I've had substantial litigation experience, I thought spending a year focusing on Int'l Law might help me break into the int'l law market, more so than without any int'l law background whatsoever. Regardless of what school I attend, if I learn about the int'l tribunals, int'l dispute resolution methods, etc., I expect I'd be more marketable as an int'l lawyer than I am now.

I really hope I get in either King's, UCL or Westminster, but I know it's getting late. Would being an American (i.e. Non-EU) help, since I'm paying more fees? Anyone else who's got input on those 3 schools, please let me know! Also, anyone know Queen Mary's deadline? Just wondering if I still have time to consider it. Thanks!
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Sabina
Hi Lawchick,

You will get an offer from Queen's Mary! I called them a couple of weeks ago and asked them if I was too late applying and they told me that everybody that meet their requirements will get an offer. Accordning to this forum Queen Mary isn't one of the best unis, as Oxbridge (OF COURSE heh) LSE and UCL, but when I asked one of my references (that works for the Swedish government and the EC commission with corporate governance related topics and other financial law) he recommended Oxbridge, LSE and actually also Queen Mary because of its fine Centre of Commercial Law. Also Queen Mary seems to have good accommodation.

Good luck with your applications
//Sabina
Hi Lawchick,

You will get an offer from Queen's Mary! I called them a couple of weeks ago and asked them if I was too late applying and they told me that everybody that meet their requirements will get an offer. Accordning to this forum Queen Mary isn't one of the best unis, as Oxbridge (OF COURSE heh) LSE and UCL, but when I asked one of my references (that works for the Swedish government and the EC commission with corporate governance related topics and other financial law) he recommended Oxbridge, LSE and actually also Queen Mary because of its fine Centre of Commercial Law. Also Queen Mary seems to have good accommodation.

Good luck with your applications
//Sabina
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lawchick
Hi Sabrina--did QM tell you if they actually have a deadline, or is just rolling all summer? I am looking to go this year, thanks!
Hi Sabrina--did QM tell you if they actually have a deadline, or is just rolling all summer? I am looking to go this year, thanks!
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anas
hi lawchick

i have visited queen mary last year while i was studying english there ,actually its well known for its commercial centre they offer wide range of business law,international law subjects and commercial arbitration , also they have a new buildings for accommodation , indeed i asked an english solicitor about queen mary he told me its worth to apply for it , its has a good reputation .

i hope that help u
hi lawchick

i have visited queen mary last year while i was studying english there ,actually its well known for its commercial centre they offer wide range of business law,international law subjects and commercial arbitration , also they have a new buildings for accommodation , indeed i asked an english solicitor about queen mary he told me its worth to apply for it , its has a good reputation .

i hope that help u
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fast1
I am at London Met excelent school!!! Lots of choice of courses good facilities!!! By the way have you considered SOAS? If you go to SOAS you might be able to take some of the courses at KCL UCL or LSE I know I did. (Dispute Resolution)
I am at London Met excelent school!!! Lots of choice of courses good facilities!!! By the way have you considered SOAS? If you go to SOAS you might be able to take some of the courses at KCL UCL or LSE I know I did. (Dispute Resolution)
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James007
Hey Lawchick, I have some advice for you on LLM programs. First, if youre going to University of London (UOL) then go to either Kings College (KC) or LSE. Queen Mary does not have as good a reputation as either of these colleges, and when youre paying in excess of 3,000 pound for tuition fees you need to be getting your monies worth. Second, out of all the UOL colleges, LSE has the best international reputation for law. However, KC also has a great reputation (I should know as I did my undergraduate course there), but is half the price of LSE.

Good luck mate
Hey Lawchick, I have some advice for you on LLM programs. First, if you’re going to University of London (UOL) then go to either Kings College (KC) or LSE. Queen Mary does not have as good a reputation as either of these colleges, and when you’re paying in excess of 3,000 pound for tuition fees you need to be getting your monies worth. Second, out of all the UOL colleges, LSE has the best international reputation for law. However, KC also has a great reputation (I should know as I did my undergraduate course there), but is half the price of LSE.

Good luck mate
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amanda
Hi, I am not sure if "best reputation" is that important when you are spending so much money. I did my llm at UCL recently and am glad to say I have passed with good marks BUT no thanks to the lecturing staff - we had mainly research students and part time tutors doing the teaching. The professors who make the "reputation" for the college were hardly ever around and when they do lecture, they are literally quite uninterested in the students. My friend who did her LLM in International Commercial Law at Westminster on the other hand had regular contact class time with her professors. They also were treated to a varied social and academic programme which UCL with its huge numbers simply could not offer. I am afraid the cost you have to pay for "reputation" is poor teaching quality and rubbish pastoral support.
Hi, I am not sure if "best reputation" is that important when you are spending so much money. I did my llm at UCL recently and am glad to say I have passed with good marks BUT no thanks to the lecturing staff - we had mainly research students and part time tutors doing the teaching. The professors who make the "reputation" for the college were hardly ever around and when they do lecture, they are literally quite uninterested in the students. My friend who did her LLM in International Commercial Law at Westminster on the other hand had regular contact class time with her professors. They also were treated to a varied social and academic programme which UCL with its huge numbers simply could not offer. I am afraid the cost you have to pay for "reputation" is poor teaching quality and rubbish pastoral support.
quote
My friend who did her LLM in International Commercial Law at Westminster on the other hand had regular contact class time with her professors.

That is what you wrote about a month ago:

"see my post about UCL/westminster - I really cannot believe what an awful place the UoL is; I wd try some other place. Southampton and Swansea are known for maritime law but when I did my LLM at UCL last year, we had a fantastic lecturer on maritime law from Westminster University. Try there if you want to be in London. I heard really good things about their LLM (I think it's an LLM in international commercial law)."
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21545/#post-21878

At that time you did not even seem to remember the name of the Westminster LLM you were referring to. Did you do some research about the Westminster LLM in the meantime? Are you considering to do a second LLM at Westminster? Or are you trying to sell something here...?
<blockquote>My friend who did her LLM in International Commercial Law at Westminster on the other hand had regular contact class time with her professors.</blockquote>
That is what you wrote about a month ago:

"see my post about UCL/westminster - I really cannot believe what an awful place the UoL is; I wd try some other place. Southampton and Swansea are known for maritime law but when I did my LLM at UCL last year, we had a fantastic lecturer on maritime law from Westminster University. Try there if you want to be in London. I heard really good things about their LLM (I think it's an LLM in international commercial law)."
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21545/#post-21878

At that time you did not even seem to remember the name of the Westminster LLM you were referring to. Did you do some research about the Westminster LLM in the meantime? Are you considering to do a second LLM at Westminster? Or are you trying to sell something here...?
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llmover
OK lest stop beating around the bush and get down to the gritty stuff on these courses and name names - its nothing you can't find out from the websites if you look hard enough so its easier if you get it from here in bitesize chunks. ITs seems like Amanda and I had very similar experiences so I'll just tell you how I found life on the UoL LLM (NB this doesn't exist anymore but the same people teach at the same institutions).

At KCL you will get Prof. Hooley for Banking/Finance - he's awesome - fantastic teacher, challenging and doesn't treat the class like its made up of 7 year olds. You'l get Prof. Morse for the Conflict of laws stuff and he is also brilliant. A complete crotchety old man but immensely clever and if you challenge him academically he responds and you can gain his respect. Then you get Prof. Winship for sales and carriage who was, in my opinion, the worst tutor I've ever had. His lectures rambled on for the whole time and frankly if you'd done the reading you knew the material better than he did.

As to Amanda's points, at UCl the main Trade guy is Prof. Michael Bridge but, as she rightly points out you'll never see him. Most of the teaching is done by Dr Fiona Smith(?) who I think is alright but not great and the carriage stuff is dealt with by Jason Chuah who is from the UNiversity of Westminster - he's a real 'up-and-comer' in the international trade academic arena and from what Amanda says he's pretty good.

As for the other places outside london I know people aren't keen to hear this kind of thing but Southampton is far and away the market leader for international trade - the staff there are really second to none - the head of department, Prof. Gaskell is a member of Quadrant Chambers - consistently ranked as one of, if not the best specialist shiping set in the country and also there is Prof. Debattista who also has mountains of practical experience and is a member of one of the best shipping sets in the country - Stone Chambers. At Southampton yu will get taught by these people and they will most certainly know your names! beware though I've heard that its a pretty intense experience and only go for it if you're prepared to put the hours in and are also prepared to take on some of the country's best maritime law minds in front of your peers in the lecture theatre.

This isn't supposed to put anyone off but its helpful to know what the reality of these courses is. As amanda also pointed out though, if you want to succeed and you put the work in you can do it no matter who teaches you - there's always a way. By the way amanda, congratulations on passing so well - any idea whent he results proper are coming out?
OK lest stop beating around the bush and get down to the gritty stuff on these courses and name names - its nothing you can't find out from the websites if you look hard enough so its easier if you get it from here in bitesize chunks. ITs seems like Amanda and I had very similar experiences so I'll just tell you how I found life on the UoL LLM (NB this doesn't exist anymore but the same people teach at the same institutions).

At KCL you will get Prof. Hooley for Banking/Finance - he's awesome - fantastic teacher, challenging and doesn't treat the class like its made up of 7 year olds. You'l get Prof. Morse for the Conflict of laws stuff and he is also brilliant. A complete crotchety old man but immensely clever and if you challenge him academically he responds and you can gain his respect. Then you get Prof. Winship for sales and carriage who was, in my opinion, the worst tutor I've ever had. His lectures rambled on for the whole time and frankly if you'd done the reading you knew the material better than he did.

As to Amanda's points, at UCl the main Trade guy is Prof. Michael Bridge but, as she rightly points out you'll never see him. Most of the teaching is done by Dr Fiona Smith(?) who I think is alright but not great and the carriage stuff is dealt with by Jason Chuah who is from the UNiversity of Westminster - he's a real 'up-and-comer' in the international trade academic arena and from what Amanda says he's pretty good.

As for the other places outside london I know people aren't keen to hear this kind of thing but Southampton is far and away the market leader for international trade - the staff there are really second to none - the head of department, Prof. Gaskell is a member of Quadrant Chambers - consistently ranked as one of, if not the best specialist shiping set in the country and also there is Prof. Debattista who also has mountains of practical experience and is a member of one of the best shipping sets in the country - Stone Chambers. At Southampton yu will get taught by these people and they will most certainly know your names! beware though I've heard that its a pretty intense experience and only go for it if you're prepared to put the hours in and are also prepared to take on some of the country's best maritime law minds in front of your peers in the lecture theatre.

This isn't supposed to put anyone off but its helpful to know what the reality of these courses is. As amanda also pointed out though, if you want to succeed and you put the work in you can do it no matter who teaches you - there's always a way. By the way amanda, congratulations on passing so well - any idea whent he results proper are coming out?
quote
llmover, thanks for all this information, it really helps. There have been some mediocre reports about UCL (eg http://www.llm-guide.com/board/22637). However, I know a couple of people who went to UCL and most of them had only good things to say about the program. A lot will depend on the selection of courses.
llmover, thanks for all this information, it really helps. There have been some mediocre reports about UCL (eg http://www.llm-guide.com/board/22637). However, I know a couple of people who went to UCL and most of them had only good things to say about the program. A lot will depend on the selection of courses.
quote
llmover
I'm sure that's true - no doubt some of the teachers are excellent.
I'm sure that's true - no doubt some of the teachers are excellent.
quote
Hi people.

I´m from Brazil and will apply for a LL.M on UK to the Fall Semester of 2007.

I will apreciate if somebody help me with that. Wich schools are top? UCL, LSE, KCL??? Any other?

Besiedes that, could you please tell me until when usually UK Law Schools accepts an admission?

Thanks all!

Rafael
Hi people.

I´m from Brazil and will apply for a LL.M on UK to the Fall Semester of 2007.

I will apreciate if somebody help me with that. Wich schools are top? UCL, LSE, KCL??? Any other?

Besiedes that, could you please tell me until when usually UK Law Schools accepts an admission?

Thanks all!

Rafael
quote
bora
Dear Rafael,

I personally find London universities problematic in two sense:
1- A very expensive City to live
2- Most academics cannot afford living in London so they have to commute- this means that there is not much contact time between them and the students

Think of Universities outside London:

If you are interested in International Trade, Shipping and Commercial law, I would recommend Swansea (I've just completed my degree there)- there is a personal touch, a great teaching team and it is a very cheap city compared to London.

All the best!
Dear Rafael,

I personally find London universities problematic in two sense:
1- A very expensive City to live
2- Most academics cannot afford living in London so they have to commute- this means that there is not much contact time between them and the students

Think of Universities outside London:

If you are interested in International Trade, Shipping and Commercial law, I would recommend Swansea (I've just completed my degree there)- there is a personal touch, a great teaching team and it is a very cheap city compared to London.

All the best!
quote
Despite the disadvantages bora has pointed, I would prefer to do an LLM in London. KCL, UCL, LSE are internationally reputed institutions, whereas Swansea is not known internationally (except maybe for shipping law). Take a look at the Times ranking (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/displayPopup/0,,13425,00.html) and check twice whether the school you apply to is well-known in your country.

By the way: I think London is fabulous.
Despite the disadvantages bora has pointed, I would prefer to do an LLM in London. KCL, UCL, LSE are internationally reputed institutions, whereas Swansea is not known internationally (except maybe for shipping law). Take a look at the Times ranking (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/displayPopup/0,,13425,00.html) and check twice whether the school you apply to is well-known in your country.

By the way: I think London is fabulous.
quote
bora
Hiya

it is a personal preference of course but you know that it will cost you twice more to live and study in London.

Regarding statistics, once a teacher of mine said:

'Statistics do not lie, liars use statistics'

All the best.
Hiya

it is a personal preference of course but you know that it will cost you twice more to live and study in London.

Regarding statistics, once a teacher of mine said:

'Statistics do not lie, liars use statistics'

All the best.
quote
bora
Forgot to mention:

Swansea University is the Winner of Best Student Experience Award of the Times Higher Education Supplement.
Forgot to mention:

Swansea University is the Winner of Best Student Experience Award of the Times Higher Education Supplement.
quote

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