Hello,

I am a fourth year student in Turkey. I am planning to have an LLM degree in US in a few years. Recently, I attented the toefl and I got 260. My GPA is currently 3,42. Can anybody tell me if my toefl score and my GPA are good enough to be admitted to a top 20 law schools in US? Which are the other criterias for being admitted? Which are the most important ones?

Thanks a lot,

Acar

Seriously, questions like this bother me. It takes not more than 5 minutes to find out the answer to your questions, the answer is directly on the schools websites. Since you are talking about the top 20 US schools you should know which ones those are, so just look for them on this very website. The links will get you directly to the pages where everything you want to know is explained in detail.

To help you a bit, mostly 250 is the magic line on the TOEFL, the top schools may want more though. Again, see their websites. Other criterias are (for example):
first degree grade
references
work experience
research experience

Replies like this one bother me even more. Sorry but I think these are fair questions. On the websites you only find the minimum score, which doesen't tell you anything about how you should really score to have a chance for admission. And the same goes for the other criteria. That's why there is a forum where people can share their experiences.

Seriously, questions like this bother me. It takes not more than 5 minutes to find out the answer to your questions, the answer is directly on the schools websites. Since you are talking about the top 20 US schools you should know which ones those are, so just look for them on this very website. The links will get you directly to the pages where everything you want to know is explained in detail.

To help you a bit, mostly 250 is the magic line on the TOEFL, the top schools may want more though. Again, see their websites. Other criterias are (for example):
first degree grade
references
work experience
research experience

Acar: you should apply for the top 20, absolutely!Your toefl score is good.As a matter of fact, the admission commitees take into account several things over your academic and social life.Otherwise, they would accept only nerds, what doesn't happen for sure.They want good students and diversity!That's all.Go ahead.

Re Acar.

Law schools in the US are looking for a class profile with a rich diversity of experience. Some of the keys to success are outstanding grades, good TOEFL score (not mere minimum score!), work experience (either full time or through internships), excellent recommendations, strong statement of purpose, quality published research, active contributions to community, and interesting co-curricular activities which will make your application file irresistible to any admissions committee officer.

as regards to your TOEFL query, out of 300 CBT, you should try scoring as much as you can. most of the people i know have scored in the range of 285-300 (including 300!). the law school only provides the minimum threshold score you should cross...but it does n't hurt and definitely helps if you score really well.

and another advice...RESEARCH is the key. just do your research and you will map out your own path for a suitable university, course and their requirements.

regards

I didn´t want to sound harsh, sorry for that. The others made good points, good luck for your applications!

p.s., Since you are writing that you plan to apply only in a few years be aware that the schools mostly demand TOEFL scores that are not older than two years. To avoid taking a new test you could have ETS send out your scores earlier. Give the schools a note and they will just keep it until you apply.

Don't worry Matthias. Apparently, you know a lot of things about LLM and basic questions like mine bother you. I thank you and the other users for their detailed answers. I will have many other questions and I will try to ameliorate the quality of my questions :)

Thanks again, regards
Erdem

acar//

Well......I would say....kinda chaos theory dominates the admission decision in LL.M......there may be unknown standard to suit specific purpose of each law school...and it is never the same each year......

To the admitted, it really is a smile of Goddess of fortune which will make feel like you are something like unbreakable, while to the rejected, it is nothing more than Procrustesian bed which will drop you out for whatever reason you can imagine to have affected adversely to you~~~~~

One thing I can say from my experience so far is that......honesty and full disclosure of your credential isn't the best policy to apply for LL.M.......they may not be able to take your application with the same level of commitment you have made in your application and in your life......crafty deception can win the race since they might not recognize it......not possibly, but probably......

Even more surprisingly, higher GPA and higher TOEFL added to excellent statement and extensive job experience you have developped for your life do not warrant that you will win over the one with lower GPA, lower TOEFL, poor statement and poor experience.....it really happens......for unknown reason......

Uh...it may sound like a grumble...but what I really want to say is.........just try best you can.......but do not be so worried about the result.......do not be too anxious about top 20......when you do what you do...that's enough...that's enough...

To reply to your question according to my experience and what I have heard, your GPA and TOEFL is sufficient to get to top 20...and even top 10......dependig on your luck~~ but remember... not until you try your best can you say it is nothing but luck...try your best...so you do not regret what you've done....

To conclude with some figures...ceteris paribus...253 TOEFL with 3.5 GPA can go to top 3, and 253 TOEFL with 3.0 GPA can go to top 8......while 290 TOEFL with 3.4 GPA may not to top 3, and 270 TOEFL with 3.5 GPA may not to top 10...that is what really happens...... as I have said, I mean, ceteris paribus......

Haha acar, I think I deserve your sarcasm ;-) Seriously, keep the questions coming! Your questions WERE ok, it was only me because sometimes I type faster than I think ;-) This board is a great help and I got lots of information from here too. I always enjoy to come here and read other people´s experiences in their LL.M. year, and since I have happily survived my own application procedere now (I was gonna despair more than one time) I am more than happy to help other people now and then too. When you start planning your LL.M. it DOES seem like it is nearly impossible to get it all done, speaking for myself I had absolutely no clue how it would work. But you will get it all worked out step by step, and then it will be the best thing ever when you get the first letter saying YES. :-) Good luck!! :-)

well,
i am trying to get in harvard, stanford, nyu, columbia or georgetown with a GPA of 2,65 and a TOEFL score of 263...

I just have some additional things like an llm degree with GPA 3.4, some publications ( a book, 4 articles), some NGO experience, assistance in writing of a financial act to a renowned professor in his field...and also a membership to a prestigious business organization...

If it is not only about the GPA, i'm hopeful..if it is not...

Face your fears, live your dreams...

My score in TOEFL 538. Do I have any chance to be admitted to UCL, LSE etc, with conditional offer?
Who can answer my question?
sincerelly

As far as I know, 600 PBT is equivalent to 250 CBT...Not sure about the minimun requirements in UK, but I'd think you need more than that...

Top UK Universities generally require high scores of at least 267 with 25 on each sub-score and a TWE of 5 (For example, Cambridge). I don't know why they have set their standards that high in contrast to Top US Universities.

re underpressure

dude...u have impressive credentials!!!...if i were an admissions committee officer...my full marks to you. that is the kind of wealth and diversity of experience which characterizes an excellent case for an early offer. cheers & best of luck!!!