Hi All

I was wondering if anyone could possibly clear up some questions for me since there seems to be a lot of information out there with varying points of view and few new facts.

I am currently completing an LLB Degree through UNISA (University of South Africa) it is a correspondence University but requires that the degree be completed in a minimum of 4 years so is essentially a 4 year degree.

Does anyone know if based on the LLB from UNISA I would be eligible to write the New York Bar Exam?

I know that LLB degrees obtained from WITS (University of the Witwatersrand) allow a person to write the New York Bar exam without any problems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

No I'm afraid not. The reason is that you must have attended 'live' lecture totaling a certain number of hours to have your degree recognised. Check the New York Bar Exam rules carefully.

For reference, the New York rules are at:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/CTAPPS/520rules.htm#6

I am not seeing a "live" requirement for foreign degrees, though there is one for US-based degrees, so it is definitely the likely reading. That said, it may be worth contacting someone more official to verify that this is indeed true. (Of course, if your correspondence degree would not qualify you to practice in South Africa, the question is already answered in the negative).

Thank you for your replies so far.

The UNISA Law Degree is considered a professional law qualification and the program is a minimum of 4 years to completion entailing the completion of 40 semester subjects. The degree is fully accredited with the Law Society of South Africa (LSSA).

The legal profession in South Africa is divided into two branches: attorneys and advocates. Completion of an LLB is a pre-requisite for both. Completion of the degree allows one to be admitted as a candidate attorney and is the only recognised academic qualification. Completion of two years of traineeship is not required by the New York Bar since I know someone who did his LLB at Wits and went straight to write the New York Bar.
An LLB degree also allows one to be enrolled imediately on the "roll" of advocates in the South African High Court.

So basically the UNISA Degree allows one to practise both branches of Law in South Africa.

Section 520.6 of the Rules of the Court of Appeals for the Admission of Attorneys and Counselors at Law [22 NYCRR 520.6] contains the eligibility requirements for applicants who wish to qualify for the New York State bar examination based on the study of law in a foreign country.

The requirements are the following:

(1) that the applicant has fulfilled the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in a foreign country other than the United States;

The UNISA degree meets this requirement.

(2) that the applicant has successfully completed a period of law study in a law school or schools, that is at least substantially equivalent in duration to that required under subdivisions (d) and (e) of section 520.3;

This is where there might be a problem. UNISA requires the submission of two assignments during a semester as proof of continuous study. However section 520.3(e) says that part time study requires:

520.3(e) Part-time program defined. A part-time program shall consist of at least 105 and no more than 135 calendar weeks in residence, including reading periods not to exceed one week per semester and examinations, of at least eight classroom periods per week, irrespective of the hours at which the classroom periods are scheduled, totaling not less than the equivalent of 1,120 hours of classroom study, exclusive of examination time. A calendar week shall include three days of scheduled classes; however, no more than three two-day weeks per semester may be counted toward the 105-week minimum. A semester which includes successful completion of at least 8 credit hours per week of study shall be counted as 15 part-time weeks in residence toward the residency weeks requirement of this subdivision.

(3) that throughout the period of the applicants study, the law school or schools attended was each recognized by the competent accrediting agency of the government of such other country, or a political subdivision thereof, as qualified and approved;

The UNISA degree meets this requirement.

(4) that the jurisprudence of such foreign country is based upon the principles of the English Common Law; and

South African Law is based on Roman Dutch Law as well as English Common law so this requirement is met.

(5) that the "program and course of law study" successfully completed by the applicant were the substantial equivalent of the legal education provided by an approved law school in the United States.

This shouldnt be a problem since it is based on the type of law taught by UNISA

It says that Law degrees obtained by way of correspondence, external, internet or self study do not qualify an individual to take the New York bar examination.
but I'm not sure if this relates to Degrees obtained in the US since the correspondence schools would not be ABA Approved Law Schools.

These are the requirements which still leaves the question:
Does a UNISA LLB Degree make a person eligible to write the New York Bar Exam?

I refer to your extract:

It says that Law degrees obtained by way of correspondence, external, internet or self study do not qualify an individual to take the New York bar examination.
but I'm not sure if this relates to Degrees obtained in the US since the correspondence schools would not be ABA Approved Law Schools.

These are the requirements which still leaves the question:
Does a UNISA LLB Degree make a person eligible to write the New York Bar Exam.

The NY Bar Exam disqualified me writing the exam with a UNISA qualification due to attending a correspondence course without classroom time, after holding me on a shoestring whilst I was studying for the exam. My remedy was to apply for special permission to the New York State Supreme Court. My petition was turned down one week before I was to write the exam - they took a month to decide! It was too late to appeal. I was not allowed to write despite completing the entire course study for 2 months!
Unless they have changed the rules - doesn't look like it - UNISA graduates practising or not will not be allowed to write. I have practised for over 20 years - made no difference - even despite the fact that I was allowed to apply for a green card based on my extraordinary status and ability as an international tax lawyer by ICE.

Welcome to the closed society of the US...and the hypocrasy and contradictions...

Sorry to hear about your experience! The funny thing is, New York is probably the most open state when it comes to admission requirements - most states require that the applicant have completed a JD at an ABA-approved law school and Canada is almost as bad. So the fact that New York permits individuals with common law degrees to take the bar without taking *any* courses in the US is really quite liberal by North American standards.

Im sorry to hear about their decisions yet not surprised. There seems to be very select rules applied in varying circumstances.

I'm a qualified Chartered Accountant CA(SA) and I have been doing my LLB degree part time through UNISA whilst I was completing my accounting articles.

Initially a friend of mine had mentioned that there was an appeal or a case in the US where a South African argued being allowed to write the New York Bar Exam based on his South African LLB. I dont know what the outcome was but perhaps this was actually you? This is what initially started me looking into the New York Bar Exam since I am going to the US later this year on a green card through my wifes extraordinary status. Although I now still have to convert my CA to a CPA, passing all your SAICA exams first time doesnt seem to help much in the conversion process.

Did they provide any reasons as to why you were refused or do they feel it unnecessary to justify their decisions?

Im assuming when you obtained your law degree from UNISA that there weren't the required assignments rule at that stage. Hopefully now that they have implemented that requirement they might consider it proof that continuous studying has been done and possibly be considered classroom time. Unfortunately I should probably have studied dentistry since trying to get any answers out of UNISA's law school feels like pulling teeth since their standard response is that "Their LLB is accepted everywhere in the world and I dont need to worry or need other proof from them."

If they felt that your law degree has merely a duration deficiency then would it be possible to complete the 20 credits in American Law that can be used to correct a deficiency as an option to writing the Bar Exam? I'm assuming they cant base it on a substantive deficiency since they accept the LLB from Wits Law School.

If you have completed over 20 years as a lawyer then would it not be more beneficial for you to write the California Bar exam since they require minimum 5 years of practise as an attorney. Unfortunately I wont be able to meet this requirement so still looking into the New York option.

The easiest way in if you have practised outside the US for more than 5 years is to go to Massachusetts - no exam... but you must be willing to live there. I don't. So I am writing the near impossible to pass (8% pass rate) tax court exam in Washington DC later this year, as I practice in tax. I have recently also been appointed a Professor in tax at an ABA approved law school in the US, and that still makes no difference.

When I asked the Chief Justice for reasons denying my petition - as none were given, she merely said send your petition in again, as if on a second try I would be approved! It's senseless - I was released from my busy practice for 2 months to do intensive study, and to get that gap again is not so easy.

They need to be taken on in the US Supreme Court on this senseless discrimination - I just don't have the time right now. Maybe in the near future. Point is I've decided not to study the material again - I'm in tax anyway and the US property system, although interesting, with torts, will not advance my knowledge in mastering the unbelievable IRC! So the tax court exam for non-attorneys is the route - Yeah right! non-attorneys, says he who has practiced for over 20 years as an attorney in tax, allowed into the US on an extraordinary alien visa as a tax specialist, and now a US Tax Professor - Am I the only one, or does something seem VERY wrong?

You can all gather I'm still somewhat p...d about this. It was my gentle wife who recently suggested I just get on with writing the tax court exam. She's probably right.

Hi there, I am completing my Masters Degree this year at the University of Pretoria and I would like to know if I will be eligible to write the New York Bar Exam? You mentioned above that your friend with a LLB degree from Wits qualified to write the New York Bar Exam, does he or maybe you have any materials, outlines and tips for us if we qualify to write? I just want to know how did it go with your eligibility application with your Unisa degree? Thanx

As long as you attended normal classes and not a correspondence course like the one through UNISA you should be fine. Look up the New York Bar Exam rules, get the application, fill it in, and they will review all your degree etc transcripts you have to submit. You must do a preparation course to get through all the material to help you pass.my tel is 0834588422 leave a message at my office if I don't answer.

They need to be taken on in the US Supreme Court on this senseless discrimination - I just don't have the time right now. Maybe in the near future.

I agree with you you need to bring them hell in home soil. But However a matter of this magnitude needs to be played a bit defferently. Get the press into it, Americans pride themselves in calling themselves th most liberal country and they are a lot of sympathizers to your cause make petitions arise public outcry qestion their credibility in liberal issues and your supreme court will rush 4a review coz at the end of the day its politics and law @ its best

If you were accepted to any Jurisdiction you qualify to take the California Bar Examination (foreign attorney test). And the bright side is there is better weather than New York.

Good Luck to you

hi

i am in the same position as the first writer of this post. i obtained my UNISA LLB degree in 2010 and is currently busy with my articles of clerkship (candidate attorney) for 5 months. i would like to complete these articles in the US but finding it difficult to find answers to the how? any help...something happened further?

thnx elaine

i am in the same position as the first writer of this post. i obtained my UNISA LLB degree in 2010 and is currently busy with my articles of clerkship (candidate attorney) for 5 months. i would like to complete these articles in the US but finding it difficult to find answers to the how? any help...something happened further?

Unfortunately qualifying in SA will not necessarily sort that out I'm afraid - with a UNISA degree. But you can do a conversion course at a NY university. Just check carefully with the Bar in NY - they don't tell you anything until its too late. In 2008 I studied the Bar and was denied access a week before !!
Another route is to go do the bar in California or Washington. You can practice Federal Law - not state law in the other states outside you qualify in - and then some where there is reciprocity - do some research on the internet. Google USA state bar requirements and you will find some interesting sites.

Hi,

Apart from the UNISA degree issue how do you go about writing the Bar Exam if you are not an American citizen or without a Green Card. I have a UKZN LLB but how do you gain entry into the USA and write the exam without some sort of VISA?

I know this is an old post but just to update.

NO, you cannot take the NY Bar Exam IF you went to UNISA. They will not allow LLM 20 credits either, based upon UNISA LLB because you MUST have gone to class on campus (live). Other universities in SA are fine ie Pretoria, Wits etc. My husband went to UNISA and our friends went to Pretoria - they got the YES to take the exam and my husband got the NO answer - even if you are already a practising lawyer/advocate, does not matter, the answer is NO. It's only UNISA that gets turned down. Other LLB grads can take the exam.

Get a visa and go ahead, however, if you don't have a green card to live there, that is another story. The exam would just be on your CV, but they wont let you immigrate just because you took the Bar Exam- they have plenty of lawyers in the USA.

Well I know this is old and will take time to be answered

There is a private institution called CTI in South Africa, which confererrs an LLB course (Bachelor of Laws Degree) with UNISA, this means one would be initially doing the LLB at UNISA but, yes wait for it............ Will be attending DAY (live) CLASSES at CTI, so basically one would be entitled to comprehensive indoor study at a campus like a typical university (although its a confererred course) mind you this has the very same benefits of any university and CTI is a private institute which means they offer high quality education!

So basically if one does take this confererred course between UNISA (ODL) and CTI (University Like Day Classes On Campus) would they be allowed to write the New York Board Exam and Practise Law in New York???? (Like After The 4 year Degree, 2 years Articles and South African Board Exam have been complete, Would one take the New York Board Exam and Practise Law in New York??)

Hey Guys, i know this post is old but it has the bet information out of any website on this topic, I am a Matric student who is planning on studying Law(LLB) and there is a private institute near my house called Varsity College that,as of 2012, is now offering the University of Free State LLB Degree, therefor it is the exact same degree from the UFS but you study on a different campus, it was a project that has been started by the head of the UFS. The details are that you study on the Varsity College campus, exact same modules and years as you would at the UFS. Upon graduation you receive the UFS LLB Certificate.

My question is if this LLB will enable me to write the NY Bar exam?