My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it.
LLM American Worth it?
Posted Jul 12, 2013 15:39
0
My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it.
Posted Jul 18, 2013 00:49
0
Dude, you really are quite bitter about your experience. Instead of spending time re-posting the same post over and over again, perhaps you should spend time sending out applications, networking, calling up people.
I graduated from Michigan. From my experience, career services equally sucked at my school (as they do at most schools). I had to buckle down and get serious about finding a job on my own and, eventually, I did. Although, it took some time and hard work.
Dude, you really are quite bitter about your experience. Instead of spending time re-posting the same post over and over again, perhaps you should spend time sending out applications, networking, calling up people.
I graduated from Michigan. From my experience, career services equally sucked at my school (as they do at most schools). I had to buckle down and get serious about finding a job on my own and, eventually, I did. Although, it took some time and hard work.
I graduated from Michigan. From my experience, career services equally sucked at my school (as they do at most schools). I had to buckle down and get serious about finding a job on my own and, eventually, I did. Although, it took some time and hard work.
Posted Aug 11, 2013 11:22
0
My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.
<blockquote> My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it. </blockquote>
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.
Posted Aug 11, 2013 18:25
0
My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.
<blockquote><blockquote> My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it. </blockquote>
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.</blockquote>
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.</blockquote>
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.
Posted Aug 11, 2013 22:56
0
My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.
Probably true.
Looks like the US job market really sucks these days.
So glad I'm going to Cambridge.
<blockquote><blockquote><blockquote> My experience. It was pricey. And the career return was low. As an ROI, it was not worth it . It was a loss. I am not the only one who feels this way. I know at least one who left the program early finding it not worth it. </blockquote>
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.</blockquote>
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.</blockquote>
Probably true.
Looks like the US job market really sucks these days.
So glad I'm going to Cambridge.
Very interesting post.
Confirms my assumption that US LL.M.s are way overpriced when compared to the top programs in Europe. I probably was right in chosing Cambridge over Columbia and Chicago.
Major downer for AU by the way. This post might stick for years.</blockquote>
Unless you are interested in tax law, LL.M. degrees, in general, are not worth the price tag, as I noted in some other posts. Incidentally, I was looking at doing an S.J.D. at Cambridge, and for non-EU types, the price tag is (or at least was in 05) just as steep as programs in the US, so I tossed that idea out.
Like I was telling Craig Brown, I lived in DC for six years and I knew plenty of LL.M. grads from AU at the World Bank, OAS, IMF, major law firms (that had branches in Europe of course), NGOs, non-profits, think tanks, but they were super well connected, did internships while in the program, and networked like crazy.
In this economy and this legal job market you just have to work your tail off to find a job. I don't care if you graduate from Harvard, Columbia, Michigan, Georgetown; you will still have to work very hard at finding work (I did) and the battle will be that much more uphill if you aren't a U.S. citizen and did not graduate from a JD program. I am not sure what Craig Brown was expecting. Perhaps he/she did not do his/her research of the US job market, in particular in the legal field, and employment prospects for LL.M. grads.
I have to chuckle a bit when I talk to people who think that they will have job offers left and right just because they graduated from Harvard's LL.M. program. If you believe that, I have some nice property in Fiji to sell you for $.99.
I know Harvard and Columbia JDs who are doing contract work/temporary work just to pay the bills. LL.M.s are certainly bellow US JD grads on the totem poll so you connect the dots.
Regarding career services, as I posted in other forums, they are worthless at about every institution of higher learning in the US, from the elite to the bottom of the ladder. They are there to organize the annual job fairs, which generally cater to JD students, more specifically to the top %15 of the JD students, and to search through websites like monster.com and re-post job posting from these sites on to the career services job bank, job postings which are useless to newly minted grads as they generally require years of experience. I went to Michigan, an elite school, and I found career services just as useless as they are everywhere else.
You have to work hard, think outside the box, network, try to do internships while in school, etc. to get anything these days, unless you are a JD graduate with Summa Cum Laude behind the Juris Doctor from the likes of Harvard and Yale. And even then, it takes some work to get a job.</blockquote>
Probably true.
Looks like the US job market really sucks these days.
So glad I'm going to Cambridge.
Inactive User
Posted Aug 16, 2013 20:22
0
I don't think US job market...I tend to think the legal profession in general worldwide...way too many people wanting to do the same things and with the same qualifications..everyone has an LLM these days and everyone is as equally bright so it is more luck than anything else
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
I don't think US job market...I tend to think the legal profession in general worldwide...way too many people wanting to do the same things and with the same qualifications..everyone has an LLM these days and everyone is as equally bright so it is more luck than anything else
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
Posted Aug 16, 2013 23:13
0
I don't think US job market...I tend to think the legal profession in general worldwide...way too many people wanting to do the same things and with the same qualifications..everyone has an LLM these days and everyone is as equally bright so it is more luck than anything else
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
I cannot speak for the rest of the world but, as I said, the legal job market in the US is poop. People who want to work at high paying large firm jobs need to be graduating from top JD (not LL.M.) programs with top grades. There are exceptions, of course, but that is the general rule.
It does not surprise me Wheretogo if London is the same. There is simply a glut of attorneys (many of whom are very brights, hard working) who are competing for not so many jobs. It is a basic econ rule of supply demand; too much supply and not enough positions to absorb the massive pool of newly minted legal practitioners. That is why I said, over and over again, that, unless you are a Harvard JD in the top 5% of your class, you have to be creative and work very very hard at landing a job. You have to put aside your pride, go to networking events, cold call smaller firms, organizations, be willing to volunteer, do internships while in school, etc.
This is not the legal job market that existed during the Clinton years when, generally speaking, the 96% employment rates cited by law schools were generally accurate. There were many many legal jobs in the 80s and 90s. There was a downward turn in the late 90s, a drop which was exacerbated by 9/11. By 2003 the legal job market was a plane heading for a mountain and by 2005 it crashed/burned and was in the proverbial toilet. Nonetheless, people still found work but, as I said, they had to work hard to get it. And working hard did not involve relying on your school's career (dis)services.
As far as I know, American has an excellent reputation for its clinics and is really well know for its international law program. I believe it has ranked in the top 10 for international law consistently for the past decade plus, as have the other two big DC schools, GW and Georgetown. That being said, just because you have an LL.M. from American in international law, or Georgetown, Harvard, Yale, for that matter, does not mean you will land a good job at a firm or an international organization.
I knew someone that graduated from American and he was involved in their human rights clinic or war crimes program. I am not sure what it is called, and another friend worked for some human trafficking NGO, through the school. They both found work in their areas of interest after they graduated but it was because they made connections through their extracurricular activities, the clinics/internships, and the professors they worked for connected them.
<blockquote>I don't think US job market...I tend to think the legal profession in general worldwide...way too many people wanting to do the same things and with the same qualifications..everyone has an LLM these days and everyone is as equally bright so it is more luck than anything else
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
</blockquote>
I cannot speak for the rest of the world but, as I said, the legal job market in the US is poop. People who want to work at high paying large firm jobs need to be graduating from top JD (not LL.M.) programs with top grades. There are exceptions, of course, but that is the general rule.
It does not surprise me Wheretogo if London is the same. There is simply a glut of attorneys (many of whom are very brights, hard working) who are competing for not so many jobs. It is a basic econ rule of supply demand; too much supply and not enough positions to absorb the massive pool of newly minted legal practitioners. That is why I said, over and over again, that, unless you are a Harvard JD in the top 5% of your class, you have to be creative and work very very hard at landing a job. You have to put aside your pride, go to networking events, cold call smaller firms, organizations, be willing to volunteer, do internships while in school, etc.
This is not the legal job market that existed during the Clinton years when, generally speaking, the 96% employment rates cited by law schools were generally accurate. There were many many legal jobs in the 80s and 90s. There was a downward turn in the late 90s, a drop which was exacerbated by 9/11. By 2003 the legal job market was a plane heading for a mountain and by 2005 it crashed/burned and was in the proverbial toilet. Nonetheless, people still found work but, as I said, they had to work hard to get it. And working hard did not involve relying on your school's career (dis)services.
As far as I know, American has an excellent reputation for its clinics and is really well know for its international law program. I believe it has ranked in the top 10 for international law consistently for the past decade plus, as have the other two big DC schools, GW and Georgetown. That being said, just because you have an LL.M. from American in international law, or Georgetown, Harvard, Yale, for that matter, does not mean you will land a good job at a firm or an international organization.
I knew someone that graduated from American and he was involved in their human rights clinic or war crimes program. I am not sure what it is called, and another friend worked for some human trafficking NGO, through the school. They both found work in their areas of interest after they graduated but it was because they made connections through their extracurricular activities, the clinics/internships, and the professors they worked for connected them.
Take London for example, a super competitive market and there are so many qualified lawyers in the UK that trained and studied here and haven't got a job and have to do temp work.
</blockquote>
I cannot speak for the rest of the world but, as I said, the legal job market in the US is poop. People who want to work at high paying large firm jobs need to be graduating from top JD (not LL.M.) programs with top grades. There are exceptions, of course, but that is the general rule.
It does not surprise me Wheretogo if London is the same. There is simply a glut of attorneys (many of whom are very brights, hard working) who are competing for not so many jobs. It is a basic econ rule of supply demand; too much supply and not enough positions to absorb the massive pool of newly minted legal practitioners. That is why I said, over and over again, that, unless you are a Harvard JD in the top 5% of your class, you have to be creative and work very very hard at landing a job. You have to put aside your pride, go to networking events, cold call smaller firms, organizations, be willing to volunteer, do internships while in school, etc.
This is not the legal job market that existed during the Clinton years when, generally speaking, the 96% employment rates cited by law schools were generally accurate. There were many many legal jobs in the 80s and 90s. There was a downward turn in the late 90s, a drop which was exacerbated by 9/11. By 2003 the legal job market was a plane heading for a mountain and by 2005 it crashed/burned and was in the proverbial toilet. Nonetheless, people still found work but, as I said, they had to work hard to get it. And working hard did not involve relying on your school's career (dis)services.
As far as I know, American has an excellent reputation for its clinics and is really well know for its international law program. I believe it has ranked in the top 10 for international law consistently for the past decade plus, as have the other two big DC schools, GW and Georgetown. That being said, just because you have an LL.M. from American in international law, or Georgetown, Harvard, Yale, for that matter, does not mean you will land a good job at a firm or an international organization.
I knew someone that graduated from American and he was involved in their human rights clinic or war crimes program. I am not sure what it is called, and another friend worked for some human trafficking NGO, through the school. They both found work in their areas of interest after they graduated but it was because they made connections through their extracurricular activities, the clinics/internships, and the professors they worked for connected them.
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