KCL vs UCL International Financial Law


Hi there, mates!

I received an offer from KCL earlier this year and accepted it. Fortunately, I also received an offer from UCL and now am thoroughly considering the options. My preferred specialism would be International financial law at KCL or International Banking and finance law at UCL. I've been carefully collecting information regarding these universities and as far as I was informed KCL appears to be better for classical law specialisms, whereas UCL is thought to be better in my case. To what extent do you agree with this and what is your general opinion on KCL vs UCL?

Thanx in advance!
Hi there, mates!

I received an offer from KCL earlier this year and accepted it. Fortunately, I also received an offer from UCL and now am thoroughly considering the options. My preferred specialism would be International financial law at KCL or International Banking and finance law at UCL. I've been carefully collecting information regarding these universities and as far as I was informed KCL appears to be better for classical law specialisms, whereas UCL is thought to be better in my case. To what extent do you agree with this and what is your general opinion on KCL vs UCL?

Thanx in advance!
quote
speciale
I'm currently studying International Finance Law at KCL. I also have friends at UCL doing similar modules but it's different. I would say the balance tips in favour of King's for this one.

KCL's International Finance Law pathway is one of the best in the country. It's the only Law school in Europe were they teach you about the legal structures of derivatives and securitisations .

The lead Professor ( Prof Ravi Tennekoon) is distinguished and approaches the course from a practitioner's angle and thus it's less academic and more practical. Prof Tennekoon aims to place you at the same level as a second year associate working for Clifford Chance/Allen&Overy capital markets department at the end of the course. Prof Tennekoon is an excellent teacher and fantastic communicator. He simplifies complex legal concepts so the masses can understand.

Career prospects seems to be good if you want to work in International Finance ( Law firms, investment banks legal teams, hedge funds, etc). ( For the avoidance of doubt, this pathway is not just about retail banking or is less of retail banking). It's about raising more in the capital markets and how to structure transactions, such bond issues, syndicated loans, loan sales etc. It also covers project finance and derivatives.

There also other renowned professors at KCL in this pathway such as Prof Jan Dalhuisen & Prof Lodewijk van Setten. These two teach Financial Risk, stability and regulation.

You can also take modules such as Regulating M&As just to diversify your pick.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
I'm currently studying International Finance Law at KCL. I also have friends at UCL doing similar modules but it's different. I would say the balance tips in favour of King's for this one.

KCL's International Finance Law pathway is one of the best in the country. It's the only Law school in Europe were they teach you about the legal structures of derivatives and securitisations .

The lead Professor ( Prof Ravi Tennekoon) is distinguished and approaches the course from a practitioner's angle and thus it's less academic and more practical. Prof Tennekoon aims to place you at the same level as a second year associate working for Clifford Chance/Allen&Overy capital markets department at the end of the course. Prof Tennekoon is an excellent teacher and fantastic communicator. He simplifies complex legal concepts so the masses can understand.

Career prospects seems to be good if you want to work in International Finance ( Law firms, investment banks legal teams, hedge funds, etc). ( For the avoidance of doubt, this pathway is not just about retail banking or is less of retail banking). It's about raising more in the capital markets and how to structure transactions, such bond issues, syndicated loans, loan sales etc. It also covers project finance and derivatives.

There also other renowned professors at KCL in this pathway such as Prof Jan Dalhuisen & Prof Lodewijk van Setten. These two teach Financial Risk, stability and regulation.

You can also take modules such as Regulating M&As just to diversify your pick.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
quote
Dear speciale,

thanks a lot for your detailed response. It corresponds with what I was told by a couple of solicitors working in London. They suggested that KCL has a much better law faculty.
On the other hand, I also spoke to few other friends of mine working in the financial sector who stated that UCL is regarded by their HR departments (namely RBS and Deutsche Bank) as a tier 1 university, whereas KCL as a tier 2.
Frankly, I think that the opinion of people working in the legal fields is more adequate, given that they work at legal firms which is my own aim eventually.

What modules did you choose? Are you considering applying for a training contract following your graduation? Or probably you have already applied?
Dear speciale,

thanks a lot for your detailed response. It corresponds with what I was told by a couple of solicitors working in London. They suggested that KCL has a much better law faculty.
On the other hand, I also spoke to few other friends of mine working in the financial sector who stated that UCL is regarded by their HR departments (namely RBS and Deutsche Bank) as a tier 1 university, whereas KCL as a tier 2.
Frankly, I think that the opinion of people working in the legal fields is more adequate, given that they work at legal firms which is my own aim eventually.

What modules did you choose? Are you considering applying for a training contract following your graduation? Or probably you have already applied?
quote
speciale
Hi Ivan,

I find that derisory to say King's Law school is a Tier 2 uni vis-a-vis UCL. In fact many investment banks such as JP Morgan,Morgan Stanley , Barcap et Al come to King's to recruit. Barcap comes there very often to have workshops to prepare King's students for interviews. May be the key legal guys at RBS and Deutsche are UCL alumni, thus HR is swayed by that fact. But I will repeat again that the difference between King's and UCL is narrow- they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The two institutions have mutual respect for each other and still run joint Masters programmes.

I am doing an LLM in International Finance Law - which I believe King's is the best palce to do it. The Finance pofessors are outstanding especially as most are former and current Law partners in the City.

I am part-qualified , so not in the training contract milieu. But many Law firms request King's students for training contracts interview. I know many people on the LLM who've secured training contracts as they are doing the LLM at King's. There are evenings where the firms come and meet students 'open days', they bring HR and senior associates or partners at these open days and it is very interactive and you make genuine contacts and get useful info.
Hope I've been of help to you.
Thanks
Hi Ivan,

I find that derisory to say King's Law school is a Tier 2 uni vis-a-vis UCL. In fact many investment banks such as JP Morgan,Morgan Stanley , Barcap et Al come to King's to recruit. Barcap comes there very often to have workshops to prepare King's students for interviews. May be the key legal guys at RBS and Deutsche are UCL alumni, thus HR is swayed by that fact. But I will repeat again that the difference between King's and UCL is narrow- they all have their strengths and weaknesses. The two institutions have mutual respect for each other and still run joint Masters programmes.

I am doing an LLM in International Finance Law - which I believe King's is the best palce to do it. The Finance pofessors are outstanding especially as most are former and current Law partners in the City.

I am part-qualified , so not in the training contract milieu. But many Law firms request King's students for training contracts interview. I know many people on the LLM who've secured training contracts as they are doing the LLM at King's. There are evenings where the firms come and meet students 'open days', they bring HR and senior associates or partners at these open days and it is very interactive and you make genuine contacts and get useful info.
Hope I've been of help to you.
Thanks
quote
speciale
My modules are Finance I,II & III, Financial Risk and Regulation and Regulating M &As.
My modules are Finance I,II & III, Financial Risk and Regulation and Regulating M &As.
quote
Dear speciale,

following your comments I'm one step closer to deciding for KCL over UCL :))) Really useful and interesting information is the one you share.
Regarding the modules - the ones you are doing are the ones I am considering, except for financial risk, stability & regulation, as I'd probably choose legal issues in corporate finance. How do you find them? I am a master in law, however here in Sofia we don't do much of economics and finance during our legal education and I don't really have this preliminary knowledge, which is a bit of concern for me.

As far as I can tell, you are well acquainted with the different issues a student in law may face and as a local guy you could probably also help me with something else I don't really get. I've been investigating so to say the matter of how I could become solicitor after I graduate one day, as I would like to work in London. I studied law in Bulgaria for 5 years but correct me if I'm wrong but I'll still have to do a GDL course, followed by a LPC and just then I could apply somewhere for a training contract. This means approx. 4 more years, right? Do you know if I could skip the GDL part given my Bulgarian diploma and directly start with the LPC?
Is it absolutely compulsory to be a solicitor/barrister, in order to work for a legal firm in London?

Hope it didn't get too long and too demanding! 10x in advance!
Dear speciale,

following your comments I'm one step closer to deciding for KCL over UCL :))) Really useful and interesting information is the one you share.
Regarding the modules - the ones you are doing are the ones I am considering, except for financial risk, stability & regulation, as I'd probably choose legal issues in corporate finance. How do you find them? I am a master in law, however here in Sofia we don't do much of economics and finance during our legal education and I don't really have this preliminary knowledge, which is a bit of concern for me.

As far as I can tell, you are well acquainted with the different issues a student in law may face and as a local guy you could probably also help me with something else I don't really get. I've been investigating so to say the matter of how I could become solicitor after I graduate one day, as I would like to work in London. I studied law in Bulgaria for 5 years but correct me if I'm wrong but I'll still have to do a GDL course, followed by a LPC and just then I could apply somewhere for a training contract. This means approx. 4 more years, right? Do you know if I could skip the GDL part given my Bulgarian diploma and directly start with the LPC?
Is it absolutely compulsory to be a solicitor/barrister, in order to work for a legal firm in London?

Hope it didn't get too long and too demanding! 10x in advance!

quote
joy101
Hey Ivan, am guessing you settled for KCL. Kindly share your experience with me. Am interested in joining the 2013/2014 class. Thank you.
Hey Ivan, am guessing you settled for KCL. Kindly share your experience with me. Am interested in joining the 2013/2014 class. Thank you.
quote
Hiya there,

yeah I indeed went for KCL and havent regretted it for a single day now (hope I feel the same after the exams). I can speak for hours on the benefits of the programme, but in outline what I could say is that one gets pretty good overall knowledge in the international financial transactions that should make the transition from university to ur future job easier. All lecturers are distinguished professionals, which I found most pleasing as I was sick of complacent academics at my previous uni. You could talk with them like a normal human being and there's no distance as between professor-student. I'm currently studying for exams, so at that stage I can only praise the sources one could use at the various libraries and e-sources that are available.
People at my class are also fun so ur social life won't be suffering at all.

Should you have any specific questions regarding any of the modules or lecturers, don't hesitate to ask.

Best regards,

I.
Hiya there,

yeah I indeed went for KCL and havent regretted it for a single day now (hope I feel the same after the exams). I can speak for hours on the benefits of the programme, but in outline what I could say is that one gets pretty good overall knowledge in the international financial transactions that should make the transition from university to ur future job easier. All lecturers are distinguished professionals, which I found most pleasing as I was sick of complacent academics at my previous uni. You could talk with them like a normal human being and there's no distance as between professor-student. I'm currently studying for exams, so at that stage I can only praise the sources one could use at the various libraries and e-sources that are available.
People at my class are also fun so ur social life won't be suffering at all.

Should you have any specific questions regarding any of the modules or lecturers, don't hesitate to ask.

Best regards,

I.
quote
joy101
Hey Ivan

I am most grateful for your prompt response. Which modules are you taking? I am interested in Law of International Finance 1,2, 3 legal issues in international Finance and principles of financial regulation in EU.

Would you have any specific advise with regard to the above modules? How best should i aim to combine the modules. Is writing an essay of 7,500 words and taking an additional 20 credit value module easier than doing a 15,000 words dissertation?

Thank you and all the best in your upcoming exams.

Oh sorry forgot to ask.... How is Prof Ravi Tennekoon's teaching style?
Hey Ivan

I am most grateful for your prompt response. Which modules are you taking? I am interested in Law of International Finance 1,2, 3 legal issues in international Finance and principles of financial regulation in EU.

Would you have any specific advise with regard to the above modules? How best should i aim to combine the modules. Is writing an essay of 7,500 words and taking an additional 20 credit value module easier than doing a 15,000 words dissertation?

Thank you and all the best in your upcoming exams.

Oh sorry forgot to ask.... How is Prof Ravi Tennekoon's teaching style?
quote
First of all, I've been reading all night long and somehow managed to erase my initial response that was like a dissertation long. I feel miserable, so please excuse me for trying to answer you in not too much detail.
In outline - I'm taking finance I, II and III; Financial risk and M&A.
Ravi's classes are really useful, demanding and give you a good insight in the legal matters he covers. He encourages any kind of questions or discussions and in fact his seminars are based on this approach - you need to prepare an answer on previous exam questions that are later discussed as between him and the other students in groups of 15-20 people. This is where you really need to start thinking, as he likes to say, and you will feel for yourself the difference in terms of the opinions you were producing in the beginning and in the end of the course. He is friendly and usually feels comfortable with people who are participating and pro-active in his classes. His reputation in the City is also something that kind of fascinates, as you gonna meet a person that was and still is one of the few really top-notch lawyers globally.
Financial risk is also of great use and it's also great fun - Prof. Dalhuisen's classes are like stand up shows. In the second semester he gets substituted by two other top-notch investment bankers at Morgan Stanley and Bank of New York - Van Setten and John Sienna, who are also really interesting and friendly guys. I warmly recommend this module, as in many ways it overlaps with Ravi's subjects, however gives you the investment banking perspective (something which Ravi strongly disagrees with, it's just lawyering with him).
M&A - you'd better not. Prof. Ogowewo is a nice person, however his teaching approach will make you drop the lectures quite soon.
Financial regulation - Prof. Lomnicka seems really nice lady, dont know about her teaching methodology. I would suggest you to leave this subject, as Ravi covers a great amount of regulation in his classes - US, EU and UK regulation, prospectuses etc. Financial risk also partially deals with Basel I and II, so I'd guess most of the things overlap.
Legal issues... - that's a course that wasnt available last year so I can't really help you on that one.

Regarding your dissertation concerns - if I were you I would take the dissertation now, as this would have given me more time to prepare for the exams. I thought that picking an additional module was the better option as it was supposed to give me insight in another legal field, however I probably chose the wrong one (M&A). 15 000 words is not as bad as it seems, I'd say it's absolutely doable within 2 weeks time and it also gives the chance to dig deep into something that is of specific interest to you. The word limits in respect to the essay restrict your creativity a lot. But then again, that's a personal decision you need to take according to your preferences.

Hope that answers your questions. Of course, if I could help you any further, just ask.

regards
First of all, I've been reading all night long and somehow managed to erase my initial response that was like a dissertation long. I feel miserable, so please excuse me for trying to answer you in not too much detail.
In outline - I'm taking finance I, II and III; Financial risk and M&A.
Ravi's classes are really useful, demanding and give you a good insight in the legal matters he covers. He encourages any kind of questions or discussions and in fact his seminars are based on this approach - you need to prepare an answer on previous exam questions that are later discussed as between him and the other students in groups of 15-20 people. This is where you really need to start thinking, as he likes to say, and you will feel for yourself the difference in terms of the opinions you were producing in the beginning and in the end of the course. He is friendly and usually feels comfortable with people who are participating and pro-active in his classes. His reputation in the City is also something that kind of fascinates, as you gonna meet a person that was and still is one of the few really top-notch lawyers globally.
Financial risk is also of great use and it's also great fun - Prof. Dalhuisen's classes are like stand up shows. In the second semester he gets substituted by two other top-notch investment bankers at Morgan Stanley and Bank of New York - Van Setten and John Sienna, who are also really interesting and friendly guys. I warmly recommend this module, as in many ways it overlaps with Ravi's subjects, however gives you the investment banking perspective (something which Ravi strongly disagrees with, it's just lawyering with him).
M&A - you'd better not. Prof. Ogowewo is a nice person, however his teaching approach will make you drop the lectures quite soon.
Financial regulation - Prof. Lomnicka seems really nice lady, dont know about her teaching methodology. I would suggest you to leave this subject, as Ravi covers a great amount of regulation in his classes - US, EU and UK regulation, prospectuses etc. Financial risk also partially deals with Basel I and II, so I'd guess most of the things overlap.
Legal issues... - that's a course that wasnt available last year so I can't really help you on that one.

Regarding your dissertation concerns - if I were you I would take the dissertation now, as this would have given me more time to prepare for the exams. I thought that picking an additional module was the better option as it was supposed to give me insight in another legal field, however I probably chose the wrong one (M&A). 15 000 words is not as bad as it seems, I'd say it's absolutely doable within 2 weeks time and it also gives the chance to dig deep into something that is of specific interest to you. The word limits in respect to the essay restrict your creativity a lot. But then again, that's a personal decision you need to take according to your preferences.

Hope that answers your questions. Of course, if I could help you any further, just ask.

regards
quote
vom86
Dear colleagues,

Pleased to greet you. I posted a comment some days ago about which institution offer the best programme focused on project finance. Considering your discussion I think you can help me to answer my query, actually my main options are KCL and UCL.

Hope to here from you soon.

Regards,
Dear colleagues,

Pleased to greet you. I posted a comment some days ago about which institution offer the best programme focused on “project finance”. Considering your discussion I think you can help me to answer my query, actually my main options are KCL and UCL.

Hope to here from you soon.

Regards,
quote
speciale
Project Finance is just one section of International Financial Law. I know Law of International Finance II at KCL is on project Finance & Loan Sales. In my opinion, it is well taught and it gives you a good grounding on the fundamental principles of project finance. I have no idea if project finance is taught at UCL and if yes at what depth.
Project Finance is just one section of International Financial Law. I know Law of International Finance II at KCL is on project Finance & Loan Sales. In my opinion, it is well taught and it gives you a good grounding on the fundamental principles of project finance. I have no idea if project finance is taught at UCL and if yes at what depth.
quote
merlo
Dear Ivan,

Could you analyze the other taught courses such as legal aspect of international finance and so on?

Could you definitely classify the five most useful courses which should be adsolutely attended to receive the real deep practical knowledge of the cutting-edge legal transactions?

Regards.

Marco

regards
Dear Ivan,

Could you analyze the other taught courses such as legal aspect of international finance and so on?

Could you definitely classify the five most useful courses which should be adsolutely attended to receive the real deep practical knowledge of the cutting-edge legal transactions?

Regards.

Marco

regards</blockquote>
quote
Dear Marco,

hope you went through what i had written above. Honestly, I couldnt add much more to that, as I wouldnt like to comment on courses I didnt take. Finance I, II and III are a must, should you decide to work in the financial sector. Financial risk, stability and regulation also falls in that category as it deals besides many other things with the infrastructure of the market that is how the trading is actually facilitated and is imo really useful.
From what Ive been told, competition law is also at the highest level as it is taught by one of the most distinguished experts in that field globally - prof.Whish (hope the spelling is correct). This legal aspect course wasnt lectured this year, so I couldnt give any advises in that regard. Insolvency and Company law were disappointing according to my fellow students.
Prof. Tenekoon's courses are exactly what youre looking for - funny thing is he often uses this same expression "cutting-edge" or "clear-cut" when referring to the legal opinions he expects students to come up with. In my humble opinion, the knowledge one develops is a solid basis to hit the ground running once you start your future career in that specific area.

Hope that helps. My mate and fellow student speciale might perhaps be able to comment on other courses as well, since he is without any doubt the most popular person in our class ;)

Regards!
Dear Marco,

hope you went through what i had written above. Honestly, I couldnt add much more to that, as I wouldnt like to comment on courses I didnt take. Finance I, II and III are a must, should you decide to work in the financial sector. Financial risk, stability and regulation also falls in that category as it deals besides many other things with the infrastructure of the market that is how the trading is actually facilitated and is imo really useful.
From what Ive been told, competition law is also at the highest level as it is taught by one of the most distinguished experts in that field globally - prof.Whish (hope the spelling is correct). This legal aspect course wasnt lectured this year, so I couldnt give any advises in that regard. Insolvency and Company law were disappointing according to my fellow students.
Prof. Tenekoon's courses are exactly what youre looking for - funny thing is he often uses this same expression "cutting-edge" or "clear-cut" when referring to the legal opinions he expects students to come up with. In my humble opinion, the knowledge one develops is a solid basis to hit the ground running once you start your future career in that specific area.

Hope that helps. My mate and fellow student speciale might perhaps be able to comment on other courses as well, since he is without any doubt the most popular person in our class ;)

Regards!
quote
I've applied to Kings to study Medical Ethics and Law MA. I am a bit worried about the usefulness of this program. I plan to conduct Research in disabilities(autism) and issues relating to medical ethics in the future.

Has anyone pursued this MA in the past? Is any one considering it? I will appreciate any kind of information regarding this program.

Thanks
I've applied to Kings to study Medical Ethics and Law MA. I am a bit worried about the usefulness of this program. I plan to conduct Research in disabilities(autism) and issues relating to medical ethics in the future.

Has anyone pursued this MA in the past? Is any one considering it? I will appreciate any kind of information regarding this program.

Thanks
quote

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