construction law


I am an architect practicing in the UK. About two years ago I finished my RIBA part 3 course and would like to become more specialised in the legal aspects of the profession. Does anyone have experience with LLM specialising in british construction law? also: As an architect, any idea what sort of jobs and positions I might be able to aim for? Arbitrator, Adjudicator etc? Do large corporate firms employ architects specialising in law?
I am an architect practicing in the UK. About two years ago I finished my RIBA part 3 course and would like to become more specialised in the legal aspects of the profession. Does anyone have experience with LLM specialising in british construction law? also: As an architect, any idea what sort of jobs and positions I might be able to aim for? Arbitrator, Adjudicator etc? Do large corporate firms employ architects specialising in law?
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Kulanski
I know that some non-lawyers in this board have been admitted to American Ivy LLM programs without a previous law degree, but I do not know whether there are any UK LLM's available to non-lawyers? Anyone here who knows more about this?
I know that some non-lawyers in this board have been admitted to American Ivy LLM programs without a previous law degree, but I do not know whether there are any UK LLM's available to non-lawyers? Anyone here who knows more about this?
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Russ
I think some UK LLM programmes are open to postgraduates without a first degree in law. University of Glasgow (GGSL) offers an LLM which can be taken by construction industry professionals:

"The LLM/Postgraduate Diploma programme has been designed to enable lawyers and construction industry professionals to develop a specialised knowledge and understanding of the essential aspects of Construction Law, and how to deal with disputes when they arise. Those who opt to study the LLM further develop their knowledge by undertaking a dissertation (in the summer) on a topic applicable to an area ofthe industry."

http://www.ggsl.strath.ac.uk/courses/construction.html


I don't know anyone who did this course though...
I think some UK LLM programmes are open to postgraduates without a first degree in law. University of Glasgow (GGSL) offers an LLM which can be taken by construction industry professionals:

<blockquote>"The LLM/Postgraduate Diploma programme has been designed to enable lawyers and construction industry professionals to develop a specialised knowledge and understanding of the essential aspects of Construction Law, and how to deal with disputes when they arise. Those who opt to study the LLM further develop their knowledge by undertaking a dissertation (in the summer) on a topic applicable to an area ofthe industry."

http://www.ggsl.strath.ac.uk/courses/construction.html</blockquote>

I don't know anyone who did this course though...
quote
sadiabdin
See King's Collage site, London
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/
See King's Collage site, London
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/
quote
pete99
Specialising in a field such as construction with your background can be very lucrative. However, there are quite a few qualified lawyers who hold dual qualifications, e.g an engineer who later qualifies as a lawyer. I guess you need to decide whether you want to become a construction lawyer or an architect with the legal know-how. If you take a common sense approach you may agree that construction law is dealt with construction lawyers and not necessarily engineers or architects with a legal background. Conversely, you may want to consider a career as a specialist consultant, but this may bring a sporadic income. If you are keen on a legal career rather consider a GDL conversion course which will prepare you for the LPC/BVC (Required to become a solicitor or barrister) After this you may specialise in construction law without doing the LLM as your undergraduate degree should give you enough specialised knowledge in the construction field. You may also find an LLM very challenging due to the fact that you have not studied an undergraduate law degree. Good Luck, Peter
Specialising in a field such as construction with your background can be very lucrative. However, there are quite a few qualified lawyers who hold dual qualifications, e.g an engineer who later qualifies as a lawyer. I guess you need to decide whether you want to become a construction lawyer or an architect with the legal know-how. If you take a common sense approach you may agree that construction law is dealt with construction lawyers and not necessarily engineers or architects with a legal background. Conversely, you may want to consider a career as a specialist consultant, but this may bring a sporadic income. If you are keen on a legal career rather consider a GDL conversion course which will prepare you for the LPC/BVC (Required to become a solicitor or barrister) After this you may specialise in construction law without doing the LLM as your undergraduate degree should give you enough specialised knowledge in the construction field. You may also find an LLM very challenging due to the fact that you have not studied an undergraduate law degree. Good Luck, Peter
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saira
hi im thinking of doing LLM in construction law in strathclyde.
how far will it help me? will i be able to get a good job in some construction company? anybody advise on this course pls.
hi im thinking of doing LLM in construction law in strathclyde.
how far will it help me? will i be able to get a good job in some construction company? anybody advise on this course pls.
quote
hi im thinking of doing LLM in construction law in strathclyde.
how far will it help me? will i be able to get a good job in some construction company? anybody advise on this course pls.

While the addition of the LLM in Construction Law would undoubtedly add that much more to what you already have, it is the qualifications and experience you already have - TOGETHER with the LLM - which would determine whether or not you would "get a good job in some construction company".

As has already been alluded to Lawyers who already have a first degree in Law and experience as a qualified Lawyer/Solicitor will be the first port of call for most construction companies when seeking advice and/or preparing documentation towards an action. This leads to the make-up of the course and entrants.

The course is open to:
1. Solicitors/Lawyers with a first degree in Law (LLB)
2. Construction Professionals (or "non-Lawyers")

The construction professionals may include such as Architects/Engineers/Surveyors/Planners/Project Managers/Contractors/etc who have a construction industry background and/or a first degree in a construction industry profession.

The course comprises 4 modules. During the first module, the Lawyers and the non-Lawyers are split into two separate classes. The non-Lawyers (compulsory) are given pure Contract Law and pure Delict (approximate equivalent to "Tort" in English Law), thus covering the essentials of Contract Law, Negligence, Unjustified Enrichment, etc, and the rights and remedies thereof. Meanwhile, the first module for the Lawyers (compulsory) are given a grounding in the construction industry. As a so-called "Construction Industry Professional" having seen the content which the Lawyers received I found it to be a somewhat general, philosophical at times and survey/trends based overview without dealing with any nitty-gritty technicalities, but then I would have that view having come from that background. Conversely, the Lawyers felt that we had been given a solid grounding in Contract Law, negligence, etc and it was certainly much more thorough than when I had law classes during my own construction industry first degree.

Upon qualification, the two sets of entrants will have a different follow-on status. Lawyers who are already qualified LLB and qualified as practising Solicitors will be able to continue to be updated and practise within the specialised field of Construction Law either as a percentage of their workload or fully as specialists in the field and represent construction industry clients and/or those general clients with construction/building problems.

On the other hand, so-called "Construction Industry Professionals" / non-Lawyers, will operate within a different sphere. Although qualified LLM in Construction Law, I cannot practise as a Solicitor/Lawyer at all. I can represent Clients if so hired but I cannot call myself a Lawyer, I am not a Lawyer, if I were to represent a client I would simply continue to call myself as my pre-existing qualified construction industry job-title. I am also not in the position of practising daily within a Legal Practice and so I do not have the benefits of regular updates etc. That is not to say that I don't try to keep up with bulletins via my profession but it is obviously not the same as the exposure to new case law and updates in the law from within a legal practice.

Like many in my situation, I am happily continuing to work in the construction industry within my pre-existing construction industry role as an employee of a construction company. The LLM merely gives me a more thorough training, understanding and awareness of contractual issues and matters which I should look out for in my job day-to-day. Does it give me greater employability? Possibly, but perhaps not a great deal more. I did not get my present job because of my LLM, and indeed it is merely an added string to my bow in terms of training.

There is a third option, and it is almost a hybrid of the two main categories discussed above. There are Consultants practices, so-called "Claims Surveyors" practices / "Construction Claims Consultants". These employ a mixture of Quantity Surveyors and other construction industry professional such as Engineers/Architects/Planners, etc, and also occasionally also those qualified LLB etc. Such specialist Practices/Firms may be hired by Contractors, Subcontractors, Employers, local Councils, practically anyone seeking advice and who requires to prepare documentation etc towards an action such as an Adjudication, Arbitration, or preparing a Claim or a Defence to a claim.

I hope some of that was of use!
<blockquote>hi im thinking of doing LLM in construction law in strathclyde.
how far will it help me? will i be able to get a good job in some construction company? anybody advise on this course pls.</blockquote>
While the addition of the LLM in Construction Law would undoubtedly add that much more to what you already have, it is the qualifications and experience you already have - TOGETHER with the LLM - which would determine whether or not you would "get a good job in some construction company".

As has already been alluded to Lawyers who already have a first degree in Law and experience as a qualified Lawyer/Solicitor will be the first port of call for most construction companies when seeking advice and/or preparing documentation towards an action. This leads to the make-up of the course and entrants.

The course is open to:
1. Solicitors/Lawyers with a first degree in Law (LLB)
2. Construction Professionals (or "non-Lawyers")

The construction professionals may include such as Architects/Engineers/Surveyors/Planners/Project Managers/Contractors/etc who have a construction industry background and/or a first degree in a construction industry profession.

The course comprises 4 modules. During the first module, the Lawyers and the non-Lawyers are split into two separate classes. The non-Lawyers (compulsory) are given pure Contract Law and pure Delict (approximate equivalent to "Tort" in English Law), thus covering the essentials of Contract Law, Negligence, Unjustified Enrichment, etc, and the rights and remedies thereof. Meanwhile, the first module for the Lawyers (compulsory) are given a grounding in the construction industry. As a so-called "Construction Industry Professional" having seen the content which the Lawyers received I found it to be a somewhat general, philosophical at times and survey/trends based overview without dealing with any nitty-gritty technicalities, but then I would have that view having come from that background. Conversely, the Lawyers felt that we had been given a solid grounding in Contract Law, negligence, etc and it was certainly much more thorough than when I had law classes during my own construction industry first degree.

Upon qualification, the two sets of entrants will have a different follow-on status. Lawyers who are already qualified LLB and qualified as practising Solicitors will be able to continue to be updated and practise within the specialised field of Construction Law either as a percentage of their workload or fully as specialists in the field and represent construction industry clients and/or those general clients with construction/building problems.

On the other hand, so-called "Construction Industry Professionals" / non-Lawyers, will operate within a different sphere. Although qualified LLM in Construction Law, I cannot practise as a Solicitor/Lawyer at all. I can represent Clients if so hired but I cannot call myself a Lawyer, I am not a Lawyer, if I were to represent a client I would simply continue to call myself as my pre-existing qualified construction industry job-title. I am also not in the position of practising daily within a Legal Practice and so I do not have the benefits of regular updates etc. That is not to say that I don't try to keep up with bulletins via my profession but it is obviously not the same as the exposure to new case law and updates in the law from within a legal practice.

Like many in my situation, I am happily continuing to work in the construction industry within my pre-existing construction industry role as an employee of a construction company. The LLM merely gives me a more thorough training, understanding and awareness of contractual issues and matters which I should look out for in my job day-to-day. Does it give me greater employability? Possibly, but perhaps not a great deal more. I did not get my present job because of my LLM, and indeed it is merely an added string to my bow in terms of training.

There is a third option, and it is almost a hybrid of the two main categories discussed above. There are Consultants practices, so-called "Claims Surveyors" practices / "Construction Claims Consultants". These employ a mixture of Quantity Surveyors and other construction industry professional such as Engineers/Architects/Planners, etc, and also occasionally also those qualified LLB etc. Such specialist Practices/Firms may be hired by Contractors, Subcontractors, Employers, local Councils, practically anyone seeking advice and who requires to prepare documentation etc towards an action such as an Adjudication, Arbitration, or preparing a Claim or a Defence to a claim.

I hope some of that was of use!

quote
See King's Collage site, London
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/

I had a look using your weblink. However, it appears that King's College do not offer Construction Law LLM, it appears to be a general LLM for graudates of other professions? Given that it does not appear to be a Construction Law LLM, it will probably not include important matters such as Adjudication as it applies to the constriction industry, the JCT Standard Conditions of Contract and other forms such as NEC, ICE, insurance matters relating to the construction industry, and Case Law specifically concerning the constriction industry. Consequently I commend the LLM at Strathclyde to those who do wish to study such matters.

It is worth noting that although the LLM at Strathclyde is taught in Scotland and includes Scots Law, it still has something like 90% in common with Construction Law within the rest of the UK. Adjudication is generally the same, and many of the cases which are cited are from England, including the TCC (Technology and Construction Court) and House of Lords - remember that in Scotland the ultimate court of appeal on Civil matters is the House of Lords (of course in criminal law the Court of Session in Edinburgh is the highest court of appeal, and which also handles civil appeals but civil cases may be appealed further to the House of Lords). Also, perhaps the best known case in English Law of Tort (negligence/Delict) is Donoghue v Stevenson - a Scottish case and which was heard in the House of Lords and which transgressed into English Law. While it would obviously be dangerous to assume that everything is common to both Scots and English Law, there are many similarities in both Contract Law and in negligence, similar statute law such as the so-called "Construction Act", similar standard forms of contract, similar Letter of Intent issues and simlar/same case law (Scots Law often refers to English cases on letter of intent), the same Adjudication procedures, many similar mutually referred precedent cases across the whole of the construction industry, contract law, negligence, etc. And of course also the same/similar procurement issues, Design & Build issues, Novation, fitness-for-purpose, design liability, and of course PPP/PFI contracts.

There are obvious differences such the aspect of "consideration" which Scots Law does not require ("offer and acceptance" can be sufficient), and Scots Law did not need a statute bill to create third party rights as they pre-existed (Jus Quaesitum Tertio) in common law. And arbitration is not codified within statute so the English Arbitration Act of 1996 does not apply.

However, if someone is an expert in Adjudication, forms of contract, the "Construction Act", PFI/PPP, claims preparation, etc, they would be equally desired for employment on either side of the Scottish/English border.
<blockquote>See King's Collage site, London
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/</blockquote>
I had a look using your weblink. However, it appears that King's College do not offer Construction Law LLM, it appears to be a general LLM for graudates of other professions? Given that it does not appear to be a Construction Law LLM, it will probably not include important matters such as Adjudication as it applies to the constriction industry, the JCT Standard Conditions of Contract and other forms such as NEC, ICE, insurance matters relating to the construction industry, and Case Law specifically concerning the constriction industry. Consequently I commend the LLM at Strathclyde to those who do wish to study such matters.

It is worth noting that although the LLM at Strathclyde is taught in Scotland and includes Scots Law, it still has something like 90% in common with Construction Law within the rest of the UK. Adjudication is generally the same, and many of the cases which are cited are from England, including the TCC (Technology and Construction Court) and House of Lords - remember that in Scotland the ultimate court of appeal on Civil matters is the House of Lords (of course in criminal law the Court of Session in Edinburgh is the highest court of appeal, and which also handles civil appeals but civil cases may be appealed further to the House of Lords). Also, perhaps the best known case in English Law of Tort (negligence/Delict) is Donoghue v Stevenson - a Scottish case and which was heard in the House of Lords and which transgressed into English Law. While it would obviously be dangerous to assume that everything is common to both Scots and English Law, there are many similarities in both Contract Law and in negligence, similar statute law such as the so-called "Construction Act", similar standard forms of contract, similar Letter of Intent issues and simlar/same case law (Scots Law often refers to English cases on letter of intent), the same Adjudication procedures, many similar mutually referred precedent cases across the whole of the construction industry, contract law, negligence, etc. And of course also the same/similar procurement issues, Design & Build issues, Novation, fitness-for-purpose, design liability, and of course PPP/PFI contracts.

There are obvious differences such the aspect of "consideration" which Scots Law does not require ("offer and acceptance" can be sufficient), and Scots Law did not need a statute bill to create third party rights as they pre-existed (Jus Quaesitum Tertio) in common law. And arbitration is not codified within statute so the English Arbitration Act of 1996 does not apply.

However, if someone is an expert in Adjudication, forms of contract, the "Construction Act", PFI/PPP, claims preparation, etc, they would be equally desired for employment on either side of the Scottish/English border.
quote
saira
hey thankx a lot for the detailed explanation.
but i have now applied for the llm in oil and gas law in aberdeen for the jan 09 intake.
how do u think the programme is? any ideas?
hey thankx a lot for the detailed explanation.
but i have now applied for the llm in oil and gas law in aberdeen for the jan 09 intake.
how do u think the programme is? any ideas?
quote
hey thankx a lot for the detailed explanation.
but i have now applied for the llm in oil and gas law in aberdeen for the jan 09 intake.
how do u think the programme is? any ideas?

I assume this is the course per this web address (Aberdeen University):-
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/prospectus/pgrad/study/taught.php?code=oil_gas_law

Or is it this one (Robert Gordon's by Distance Learning):-
http://www.legalscholars.ac.uk/text/events/item.cfm?no=656

If its the first one then it appears you need a law degree for entry so I'm guessing you have this, i.e. not open to industry professional within the oil/gas industry who don't possess a law degree. It looks exciting and such specialisation will probably bring with it high earning power. With the Russians and even the normally placid Norwegians fighting over rights to the north pole and polar cap oil reserves so here's to your first million!

Best of luck! :-)
<blockquote>hey thankx a lot for the detailed explanation.
but i have now applied for the llm in oil and gas law in aberdeen for the jan 09 intake.
how do u think the programme is? any ideas?</blockquote>
I assume this is the course per this web address (Aberdeen University):-
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/prospectus/pgrad/study/taught.php?code=oil_gas_law

Or is it this one (Robert Gordon's by Distance Learning):-
http://www.legalscholars.ac.uk/text/events/item.cfm?no=656

If its the first one then it appears you need a law degree for entry so I'm guessing you have this, i.e. not open to industry professional within the oil/gas industry who don't possess a law degree. It looks exciting and such specialisation will probably bring with it high earning power. With the Russians and even the normally placid Norwegians fighting over rights to the north pole and polar cap oil reserves so here's to your first million!

Best of luck! :-)
quote
saira
hi. its the first one.its Aberdeen. and yes im already a lawyer from mumbai university. india.
hi. its the first one.its Aberdeen. and yes im already a lawyer from mumbai university. india.
quote

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