Cambridge MCL/LLM vs. Oxford BCL/MLF vs. LSE/UCL/KCL

55 9

Posted Jul 13, 2022 19:55

Hi all,
I plan to apply to Oxbridge and LSE/UCL/KCL for the 2023-2024 intakes. I have a finance background (3 yrs of exp. in a leading Indian firm by the time I start LLM). I am looking to pursue an LLM mainly with the view to pursue a career as a finance lawyer in London. Of course, I will apply to all the universities, but if given an option, which university/ course should be preferable from a future career perspective (university placement/image in the minds of top firms)? Would also be amazing to know if the alumni base has any role to play?

Thanks in advance!

quote

UnleashedS...

114 17

Posted Jul 17, 2022 16:41

Hi all,

I plan to apply to Oxbridge and LSE/UCL/KCL for the 2023-2024 intakes. I have a finance background (3 yrs of exp. in a leading Indian firm by the time I start LLM). I am looking to pursue an LLM mainly with the view to pursue a career as a finance lawyer in London. Of course, I will apply to all the universities, but if given an option, which university/ course should be preferable from a future career perspective (university placement/image in the minds of top firms)? Would also be amazing to know if the alumni base has any role to play?

Thanks in advance!

Dear KK_UKMASTERS,

Obviously Oxbridge will take you about anywhere, although not on its own. See my previous replies to posts on when to do an LL.M. and how to choose. Your finance background will help you out.

First of all, I feel like unless you have the grades (equal or above 2:1), it is harder to get into Oxford than it is to get into Cambridge. Oxford has no mercy with the grades, and therefore, has a higher level on paper in terms of its student cohort. On paper. I personally believe Cambridge > Oxford, where Oxford is the "if you know, you know" type of university (very well regarded in academia, etc...).

The BCL is the most prestigious degree for Common Law backgrounds. The MLF is great if you look at its content. The MCL has great courses, but it does not confer you an LL.M., as the name says. Even though I always recommend to go for content above brand, I'd keep it traditional regarding UK universities/degrees because the market there is very traditional and hard to penetrate, and would, in order go for Oxford BCL, if not, Cambridge LL.M. I'd also personally choose to take the MLF above the MCL. If I'm not mistaken, Cambridge will try to offer the MCL to a lot of its LL.M. applicants – this should give you an idea on which of the two carries more prestige.

For LSE/UCL/KCL, I feel like LSE carries the bigger weight all-around mainland Europe and UK. It's well regarded and respected. KCL has a lot of programs and is easier on the recruiting/application side. UCL is very famous within the local market and again, more traditional. For these reasons, I'd personally go LSE > UCL > KCL, but locals would probably go UCL > LSE > KCL. I think LSE is more progressive/innovative than UCL, and has a broader international reputation.

Check these out (first one is slightly outdated, but has a lot of content):

https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/oxford-bcl-and-cambridge-llm-applicants-2009-65576

https://superlawyer.in/shriya-maini-on-choosing-bcl-oxford-over-llm-cambridge-scholarships-role-higher-studies-litigation/

https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/u99a4z/ucl_vs_kcl/

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4551952

https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/ucl-vs-lse-vs-kcl-245084

Best,

UnleashedSoul

EDIT: for information about the local market, I found https://www.rollonfriday.com to be both hilarious and helpful. It is sort of the equivalent to "Above the Law" in the US.

[Edited by UnleashedSoul on Jul 17, 2022]

[quote]Hi all, 
I plan to apply to Oxbridge and LSE/UCL/KCL for the 2023-2024 intakes. I have a finance background (3 yrs of exp. in a leading Indian firm by the time I start LLM). I am looking to pursue an LLM mainly with the view to pursue a career as a finance lawyer in London. Of course, I will apply to all the universities, but if given an option, which university/ course should be preferable from a future career perspective (university placement/image in the minds of top firms)? Would also be amazing to know if the alumni base has any role to play? 
 
Thanks in advance! [/quote] Dear KK_UKMASTERS, Obviously Oxbridge will take you about anywhere, although not on its own. See my previous replies to posts on when to do an LL.M. and how to choose. Your finance background will help you out. First of all, I feel like unless you have the grades (equal or above 2:1), it is harder to get into Oxford than it is to get into Cambridge. Oxford has no mercy with the grades, and therefore, has a higher level on paper in terms of its student cohort. On paper. I personally believe Cambridge > Oxford, where Oxford is the "if you know, you know" type of university (very well regarded in academia, etc...). The BCL is the most prestigious degree for Common Law backgrounds. The MLF is great if you look at its content. The MCL has great courses, but it does not confer you an LL.M., as the name says. Even though I always recommend to go for content above brand, I'd keep it traditional regarding UK universities/degrees because the market there is very traditional and hard to penetrate, and would, in order go for Oxford BCL, if not, Cambridge LL.M. I'd also personally choose to take the MLF above the MCL. If I'm not mistaken, Cambridge will try to offer the MCL to a lot of its LL.M. applicants – this should give you an idea on which of the two carries more prestige.  For LSE/UCL/KCL, I feel like LSE carries the bigger weight all-around mainland Europe and UK. It's well regarded and respected. KCL has a lot of programs and is easier on the recruiting/application side. UCL is very famous within the local market and again, more traditional. For these reasons, I'd personally go LSE > UCL > KCL, but locals would probably go UCL > LSE > KCL. I think LSE is more progressive/innovative than UCL, and has a broader international reputation. <div>Check these out (first one is slightly outdated, but has a lot of content):</div> https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/oxford-bcl-and-cambridge-llm-applicants-2009-65576 https://superlawyer.in/shriya-maini-on-choosing-bcl-oxford-over-llm-cambridge-scholarships-role-higher-studies-litigation/ <div>https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/u99a4z/ucl_vs_kcl/</div> https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4551952 https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/ucl-vs-lse-vs-kcl-245084 <div>Best, </div><div>:gem:UnleashedSoul:gem:</div> EDIT: for information about the local market, I found https://www.rollonfriday.com to be both hilarious and helpful. It is sort of the equivalent to "Above the Law" in the US.

quote

kikito

62 34

Posted Jul 17, 2022 17:36

Hi all,

I plan to apply to Oxbridge and LSE/UCL/KCL for the 2023-2024 intakes. I have a finance background (3 yrs of exp. in a leading Indian firm by the time I start LLM). I am looking to pursue an LLM mainly with the view to pursue a career as a finance lawyer in London. Of course, I will apply to all the universities, but if given an option, which university/ course should be preferable from a future career perspective (university placement/image in the minds of top firms)? Would also be amazing to know if the alumni base has any role to play?

Thanks in advance!

Dear KK_UKMASTERS,

Obviously Oxbridge will take you about anywhere, although not on its own. See my previous replies to posts on when to do an LL.M. and how to choose. Your finance background will help you out.

First of all, I feel like unless you have the grades (equal or above 2:1), it is harder to get into Oxford than it is to get into Cambridge. Oxford has no mercy with the grades, and therefore, has a higher level on paper in terms of its student cohort. On paper. I personally believe Cambridge > Oxford, where Oxford is the "if you know, you know" type of university (very well regarded in academia, etc...).

The BCL is the most prestigious degree for Common Law backgrounds. The MLF is great if you look at its content. The MCL has great courses, but it does not confer you an LL.M., as the name says. Even though I always recommend to go for content above brand, I'd keep it traditional regarding UK universities/degrees because the market there is very traditional and hard to penetrate, and would, in order go for Oxford BCL, if not, Cambridge LL.M. I'd also personally choose to take the MLF above the MCL. If I'm not mistaken, Cambridge will try to offer the MCL to a lot of its LL.M. applicants – this should give you an idea on which of the two carries more prestige.

For LSE/UCL/KCL, I feel like LSE carries the bigger weight all-around mainland Europe and UK. It's well regarded and respected. KCL has a lot of programs and is easier on the recruiting/application side. UCL is very famous within the local market and again, more traditional. For these reasons, I'd personally go LSE > UCL > KCL, but locals would probably go UCL > LSE > KCL. I think LSE is more progressive/innovative than UCL, and has a broader international reputation.

Check these out (first one is slightly outdated, but has a lot of content):

https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/oxford-bcl-and-cambridge-llm-applicants-2009-65576

https://superlawyer.in/shriya-maini-on-choosing-bcl-oxford-over-llm-cambridge-scholarships-role-higher-studies-litigation/

https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/u99a4z/ucl_vs_kcl/

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4551952

https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/ucl-vs-lse-vs-kcl-245084

Best,

UnleashedSoul
EDIT: for information about the local market, I found https://www.rollonfriday.com to be both hilarious and helpful. It is sort of the equivalent to "Above the Law" in the US.

[Edited by kikito on Jul 17, 2022]

very comprehensive and eloquently put! However, I couldn't help but feel a little irked at the part where you stated that the MCL does not confer one with an LLM. Then the same can be argued against the BCL perhaps? Or is that invalid just because it's marketed and promoted as the most prestigious law degree for Common Law backgrounds? :smile: The MCL, at the end of the day, is a full fledged master's degree that is technically an LLM in Corporate Law, even though the degree has its own unique name. And there have been a number MCL graduates from India who landed up as Associates in some of UK's leading law firms, some even before completion of the course. Just felt like it needed to be put out there. I've noticed this tendency among some users here on this website to undermine the MCL's prestige. [quote][quote]Hi all, 
I plan to apply to Oxbridge and LSE/UCL/KCL for the 2023-2024 intakes. I have a finance background (3 yrs of exp. in a leading Indian firm by the time I start LLM). I am looking to pursue an LLM mainly with the view to pursue a career as a finance lawyer in London. Of course, I will apply to all the universities, but if given an option, which university/ course should be preferable from a future career perspective (university placement/image in the minds of top firms)? Would also be amazing to know if the alumni base has any role to play? 
 
Thanks in advance! [/quote] Dear KK_UKMASTERS, Obviously Oxbridge will take you about anywhere, although not on its own. See my previous replies to posts on when to do an LL.M. and how to choose. Your finance background will help you out. First of all, I feel like unless you have the grades (equal or above 2:1), it is harder to get into Oxford than it is to get into Cambridge. Oxford has no mercy with the grades, and therefore, has a higher level on paper in terms of its student cohort. On paper. I personally believe Cambridge > Oxford, where Oxford is the "if you know, you know" type of university (very well regarded in academia, etc...). The BCL is the most prestigious degree for Common Law backgrounds. The MLF is great if you look at its content. The MCL has great courses, but it does not confer you an LL.M., as the name says. Even though I always recommend to go for content above brand, I'd keep it traditional regarding UK universities/degrees because the market there is very traditional and hard to penetrate, and would, in order go for Oxford BCL, if not, Cambridge LL.M. I'd also personally choose to take the MLF above the MCL. If I'm not mistaken, Cambridge will try to offer the MCL to a lot of its LL.M. applicants – this should give you an idea on which of the two carries more prestige.  For LSE/UCL/KCL, I feel like LSE carries the bigger weight all-around mainland Europe and UK. It's well regarded and respected. KCL has a lot of programs and is easier on the recruiting/application side. UCL is very famous within the local market and again, more traditional. For these reasons, I'd personally go LSE > UCL > KCL, but locals would probably go UCL > LSE > KCL. I think LSE is more progressive/innovative than UCL, and has a broader international reputation. <div>Check these out (first one is slightly outdated, but has a lot of content):</div> https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/oxford-bcl-and-cambridge-llm-applicants-2009-65576 https://superlawyer.in/shriya-maini-on-choosing-bcl-oxford-over-llm-cambridge-scholarships-role-higher-studies-litigation/ <div>https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/u99a4z/ucl_vs_kcl/</div> https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4551952 https://llm-guide.com/board/uk-ireland/ucl-vs-lse-vs-kcl-245084 <div>Best, </div><div>:gem:UnleashedSoul:gem:</div> EDIT: for information about the local market, I found https://www.rollonfriday.com to be both hilarious and helpful. It is sort of the equivalent to "Above the Law" in the US. [/quote]

quote

UnleashedS...

114 17

Posted Jul 17, 2022 19:55

very comprehensive and eloquently put! However, I couldn't help but feel a little irked at the part where you stated that the MCL does not confer one with an LLM. Then the same can be argued against the BCL perhaps? Or is that invalid just because it's marketed and promoted as the most prestigious law degree for Common Law backgrounds?

The MCL, at the end of the day, is a full fledged master's degree that is technically an LLM in Corporate Law, even though the degree has its own unique name. And there have been a number MCL graduates from India who landed up as Associates in some of UK's leading law firms, some even before completion of the course. Just felt like it needed to be put out there. I've noticed this tendency among some users here on this website to undermine the MCL's prestige.

Dear kikito,

Thanks for the message and direct reply.

While I kind of agree with you that the MCL gets a lot of hate, a lot of it has to do with how the university itself markets it and operates it. It is a fact that Cambridge pushes some of the LL.M. applicants towards the MCL because the hiring criteria is apparently different but overall this doesn't really make sense in terms of transparency. Not to mention, as opposed to Cambridge's LL.M., or Oxford's BCL vs. MJur mirror-image, both Cambridge's MCL and Oxford's MLF seem to trend towards cash-cow style degrees, unfortunately. Especially since Brexit with the ridiculous fees now applying to everyone that is non-UK.

With regards to the content of the programs themselves, they are two very different degrees. By default, the LL.M. is simply more prestigious "as-is" because it is the "end-game" (post-)graduate degree of reference for legal studies (not counting Dr. iur., PhD, SJD, etc...). This is both from a word-of-mouth/market and HR perspective – nothing has changed in the past 20 years, it's still the classic road of the bologna L-M-D process and the LL.M. is king in this system for those that replace the "D"octorate with an exotic post-graduate master's degree.

You are spot on in that it is a tailor-made program aimed at mid-level career professionals. However, with regards to the BCL at Oxford, do note that Oxford, as stated, operates very traditionally and has thus kept the differentiation of the MJur (Magister Iuris) and BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) for historic tradition purposes. Accordingly, Oxford does not offer the traditional, internationally acclaimed modern "LL.M." (Master of Laws), and instead offers the MLF as an alternative to the BCL/MJur. I do think that the MLF is much more believable, if you look at Oxford's law/legal centers, projects, etc..., whereas the MCL seems to be a mere response to the MLF. For reference, MLF was launched in 2010, MCL in 2012.

However, do not be mistaken, the MCL, as well as the MLF, BCL, and MJur, are all NOT LL.M. degrees. You have to understand the historical background and market importance of the distinction of these degrees. The two (MCL and LL.M.) are, as much as some of us would like it, not technically the same. Each serves its own purpose. This does not, however, mean that one is better than the other. Degrees are subjective to a certain extent because in an ideal world, they have to serve your subjective, personal, profile, rather than a general purpose.

I won't go into the job market specifics that you touched upon, because I believe they are unrelated to the topic. Any degree from these prestigious universities is by default, marketable. Job prospects are much more related to the combination of a prior background, where any of the aforementioned degrees serves as a stepping foot into the local market, as opposed to a golden key to jobs. I am 100% sure that some of the MCL Alumni/Student profiles objectively have a more adequate profile prone to landing jobs.

But, remember...the UK is a country of tradition. It matters. If someone has the "chance" do decide between LL.M. and MCL or BCL/MJur and MLF, I would advise to really make an informed choice.

All that being said, if you can't get into the LL.M./MJur/BCL, the MLF and MCL are still degrees from Oxbridge ;)

For those who like to read:

https://eua.eu/issues/10:bologna-process.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Civil_Law#The_modern_BCL:_Oxford

Best,

UnleashedSoul

[Edited by UnleashedSoul on Jul 17, 2022]

[quote][quote]very comprehensive and eloquently put! However, I couldn't help but feel a little irked at the part where you stated that the MCL does not confer one with an LLM. Then the same can be argued against the BCL perhaps? Or is that invalid just because it's marketed and promoted as the most prestigious law degree for Common Law backgrounds? :smile: The MCL, at the end of the day, is a full fledged master's degree that is technically an LLM in Corporate Law, even though the degree has its own unique name. And there have been a number MCL graduates from India who landed up as Associates in some of UK's leading law firms, some even before completion of the course. Just felt like it needed to be put out there. I've noticed this tendency among some users here on this website to undermine the MCL's prestige.[/quote] Dear kikito, Thanks for the message and direct reply. While I kind of agree with you that the MCL gets a lot of hate, a lot of it has to do with how the university itself markets it and operates it. It is a fact that Cambridge pushes some of the LL.M. applicants towards the MCL because the hiring criteria is apparently different but overall this doesn't really make sense in terms of transparency. Not to mention, as opposed to Cambridge's LL.M., or Oxford's BCL vs. MJur mirror-image, both Cambridge's MCL and Oxford's MLF seem to trend towards cash-cow style degrees, unfortunately. Especially since Brexit with the ridiculous fees now applying to everyone that is non-UK. With regards to the content of the programs themselves, they are two very different degrees. By default, the LL.M. is simply more prestigious "as-is" because it is the "end-game" (post-)graduate degree of reference for legal studies (not counting Dr. iur., PhD, SJD, etc...). This is both from a word-of-mouth/market and HR perspective – nothing has changed in the past 20 years, it's still the classic road of the bologna L-M-D process and the LL.M. is king in this system for those that replace the "D"octorate with an exotic post-graduate master's degree. You are spot on in that it is a tailor-made program aimed at mid-level career professionals. However, with regards to the BCL at Oxford, do note that Oxford, as stated, operates very traditionally and has thus kept the differentiation of the MJur (Magister Iuris) and BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) for historic tradition purposes. Accordingly, Oxford does not offer the traditional, internationally acclaimed modern "LL.M." (Master of Laws), and instead offers the MLF as an alternative to the BCL/MJur. I do think that the MLF is much more believable, if you look at Oxford's law/legal centers, projects, etc..., whereas the MCL seems to be a mere response to the MLF. For reference, MLF was launched in 2010, MCL in 2012. However, do not be mistaken, the MCL, as well as the MLF, BCL, and MJur, are all NOT LL.M. degrees. You have to understand the historical background and market importance of the distinction of these degrees. The two (MCL and LL.M.) are, as much as some of us would like it, not technically the same. Each serves its own purpose. This does not, however, mean that one is better than the other. Degrees are subjective to a certain extent because in an ideal world, they have to serve your subjective, personal, profile, rather than a general purpose. I won't go into the job market specifics that you touched upon, because I believe they are unrelated to the topic. Any degree from these prestigious universities is by default, marketable. Job prospects are much more related to the combination of a prior background, where any of the aforementioned degrees serves as a stepping foot into the local market, as opposed to a golden key to jobs. I am 100% sure that some of the MCL Alumni/Student profiles objectively have a more adequate profile prone to landing jobs. But, remember...the UK is a country of tradition. It matters. If someone has the "chance" do decide between LL.M. and MCL or BCL/MJur and MLF, I would advise to really make an informed choice. All that being said, if you can't get into the LL.M./MJur/BCL, the MLF and MCL are still degrees from Oxbridge ;) For those who like to read: https://eua.eu/issues/10:bologna-process.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Civil_Law#The_modern_BCL:_Oxford Best, :gem:UnleashedSoul:gem:

quote

kikito

62 34

Posted Jul 18, 2022 06:34

very comprehensive and eloquently put! However, I couldn't help but feel a little irked at the part where you stated that the MCL does not confer one with an LLM. Then the same can be argued against the BCL perhaps? Or is that invalid just because it's marketed and promoted as the most prestigious law degree for Common Law backgrounds?

The MCL, at the end of the day, is a full fledged master's degree that is technically an LLM in Corporate Law, even though the degree has its own unique name. And there have been a number MCL graduates from India who landed up as Associates in some of UK's leading law firms, some even before completion of the course. Just felt like it needed to be put out there. I've noticed this tendency among some users here on this website to undermine the MCL's prestige.

Dear kikito,

Thanks for the message and direct reply.

While I kind of agree with you that the MCL gets a lot of hate, a lot of it has to do with how the university itself markets it and operates it. It is a fact that Cambridge pushes some of the LL.M. applicants towards the MCL because the hiring criteria is apparently different but overall this doesn't really make sense in terms of transparency. Not to mention, as opposed to Cambridge's LL.M., or Oxford's BCL vs. MJur mirror-image, both Cambridge's MCL and Oxford's MLF seem to trend towards cash-cow style degrees, unfortunately. Especially since Brexit with the ridiculous fees now applying to everyone that is non-UK.

With regards to the content of the programs themselves, they are two very different degrees. By default, the LL.M. is simply more prestigious "as-is" because it is the "end-game" (post-)graduate degree of reference for legal studies (not counting Dr. iur., PhD, SJD, etc...). This is both from a word-of-mouth/market and HR perspective – nothing has changed in the past 20 years, it's still the classic road of the bologna L-M-D process and the LL.M. is king in this system for those that replace the "D"octorate with an exotic post-graduate master's degree.

You are spot on in that it is a tailor-made program aimed at mid-level career professionals. However, with regards to the BCL at Oxford, do note that Oxford, as stated, operates very traditionally and has thus kept the differentiation of the MJur (Magister Iuris) and BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) for historic tradition purposes. Accordingly, Oxford does not offer the traditional, internationally acclaimed modern "LL.M." (Master of Laws), and instead offers the MLF as an alternative to the BCL/MJur. I do think that the MLF is much more believable, if you look at Oxford's law/legal centers, projects, etc..., whereas the MCL seems to be a mere response to the MLF. For reference, MLF was launched in 2010, MCL in 2012.

However, do not be mistaken, the MCL, as well as the MLF, BCL, and MJur, are all NOT LL.M. degrees. You have to understand the historical background and market importance of the distinction of these degrees. The two (MCL and LL.M.) are, as much as some of us would like it, not technically the same. Each serves its own purpose. This does not, however, mean that one is better than the other. Degrees are subjective to a certain extent because in an ideal world, they have to serve your subjective, personal, profile, rather than a general purpose.

I won't go into the job market specifics that you touched upon, because I believe they are unrelated to the topic. Any degree from these prestigious universities is by default, marketable. Job prospects are much more related to the combination of a prior background, where any of the aforementioned degrees serves as a stepping foot into the local market, as opposed to a golden key to jobs. I am 100% sure that some of the MCL Alumni/Student profiles objectively have a more adequate profile prone to landing jobs.

But, remember...the UK is a country of tradition. It matters. If someone has the "chance" do decide between LL.M. and MCL or BCL/MJur and MLF, I would advise to really make an informed choice.

All that being said, if you can't get into the LL.M./MJur/BCL, the MLF and MCL are still degrees from Oxbridge ;)

For those who like to read:

https://eua.eu/issues/10:bologna-process.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Civil_Law#The_modern_BCL:_Oxford

Best,

UnleashedSoul

Fun fact: the admission standard is exactly the same for the MCL as it is for the Cambridge LLM.

Yes, the profiles they are looking for may slightly differ as in the LLM is more academic oriented whereas the MCL is tailor made for Corporate Law enthusiasts hence, it has a more practical approach. It comes down to how one sells themselves on their Personal Statement. So yeah, even in the case where someone does apply for both the degrees and ends up getting the MCL, it is just as prestigious an achievement. The insinuation that an applicant gets an offer to MCL/MLF because they aren't good enough to get into the LLM/BCL is unwarranted.

What one ultimately does with the said degree afterwards be it the LLM, MCL, BCL, MJur or MLF is up to that individual and their ambition. Anybody who gets into Oxbridge, gets in because they deserve to be there.

Love, Kikito

[Edited by kikito on Jul 18, 2022]

[quote][quote][quote]very comprehensive and eloquently put! However, I couldn't help but feel a little irked at the part where you stated that the MCL does not confer one with an LLM. Then the same can be argued against the BCL perhaps? Or is that invalid just because it's marketed and promoted as the most prestigious law degree for Common Law backgrounds? :smile: The MCL, at the end of the day, is a full fledged master's degree that is technically an LLM in Corporate Law, even though the degree has its own unique name. And there have been a number MCL graduates from India who landed up as Associates in some of UK's leading law firms, some even before completion of the course. Just felt like it needed to be put out there. I've noticed this tendency among some users here on this website to undermine the MCL's prestige.[/quote] Dear kikito, Thanks for the message and direct reply. While I kind of agree with you that the MCL gets a lot of hate, a lot of it has to do with how the university itself markets it and operates it. It is a fact that Cambridge pushes some of the LL.M. applicants towards the MCL because the hiring criteria is apparently different but overall this doesn't really make sense in terms of transparency. Not to mention, as opposed to Cambridge's LL.M., or Oxford's BCL vs. MJur mirror-image, both Cambridge's MCL and Oxford's MLF seem to trend towards cash-cow style degrees, unfortunately. Especially since Brexit with the ridiculous fees now applying to everyone that is non-UK. With regards to the content of the programs themselves, they are two very different degrees. By default, the LL.M. is simply more prestigious "as-is" because it is the "end-game" (post-)graduate degree of reference for legal studies (not counting Dr. iur., PhD, SJD, etc...). This is both from a word-of-mouth/market and HR perspective – nothing has changed in the past 20 years, it's still the classic road of the bologna L-M-D process and the LL.M. is king in this system for those that replace the "D"octorate with an exotic post-graduate master's degree. You are spot on in that it is a tailor-made program aimed at mid-level career professionals. However, with regards to the BCL at Oxford, do note that Oxford, as stated, operates very traditionally and has thus kept the differentiation of the MJur (Magister Iuris) and BCL (Bachelor of Civil Law) for historic tradition purposes. Accordingly, Oxford does not offer the traditional, internationally acclaimed modern "LL.M." (Master of Laws), and instead offers the MLF as an alternative to the BCL/MJur. I do think that the MLF is much more believable, if you look at Oxford's law/legal centers, projects, etc..., whereas the MCL seems to be a mere response to the MLF. For reference, MLF was launched in 2010, MCL in 2012. However, do not be mistaken, the MCL, as well as the MLF, BCL, and MJur, are all NOT LL.M. degrees. You have to understand the historical background and market importance of the distinction of these degrees. The two (MCL and LL.M.) are, as much as some of us would like it, not technically the same. Each serves its own purpose. This does not, however, mean that one is better than the other. Degrees are subjective to a certain extent because in an ideal world, they have to serve your subjective, personal, profile, rather than a general purpose. I won't go into the job market specifics that you touched upon, because I believe they are unrelated to the topic. Any degree from these prestigious universities is by default, marketable. Job prospects are much more related to the combination of a prior background, where any of the aforementioned degrees serves as a stepping foot into the local market, as opposed to a golden key to jobs. I am 100% sure that some of the MCL Alumni/Student profiles objectively have a more adequate profile prone to landing jobs. But, remember...the UK is a country of tradition. It matters. If someone has the "chance" do decide between LL.M. and MCL or BCL/MJur and MLF, I would advise to really make an informed choice. All that being said, if you can't get into the LL.M./MJur/BCL, the MLF and MCL are still degrees from Oxbridge ;) For those who like to read: https://eua.eu/issues/10:bologna-process.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Civil_Law#The_modern_BCL:_Oxford Best, :gem:UnleashedSoul:gem: [/quote] Fun fact: the admission standard is exactly the same for the MCL as it is for the Cambridge LLM. Yes, the profiles they are looking for may slightly differ as in the LLM is more academic oriented whereas the MCL is tailor made for Corporate Law enthusiasts hence, it has a more practical approach. It comes down to how one sells themselves on their Personal Statement. So yeah, even in the case where someone does apply for both the degrees and ends up getting the MCL, it is just as prestigious an achievement. The insinuation that an applicant gets an offer to MCL/MLF because they aren't good enough to get into the LLM/BCL is unwarranted.  What one ultimately does with the said degree afterwards be it the LLM, MCL, BCL, MJur or MLF is up to that individual and their ambition. Anybody who gets into Oxbridge, gets in because they deserve to be there. Love, Kikito :hugging-face:

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GK_UKMASTE...

55 9

Posted Jul 18, 2022 15:18

Thanks a tonne both -unleashedsoul and kikito. You guys have provided extremely candid and honest reviews.

However, what I do want to understand is the perception of all the stated degrees in the minds of leading UK law firms. While it makes absolute sense to say that the degrees are in themselves a stepping stone and not a golden key and that it depends a lot on the background of the graduate - could you guys please provide your idea of how a degree from these universities would play out post completion of these courses for an Indian lawyer with 3yr PQE? What all to keep in mind in this regard? Which one is more preferable over the other? Esp. for a masters in corporate and commercial law.

thanks in advance!!

Thanks a tonne both -unleashedsoul and kikito. You guys have provided extremely candid and honest reviews.  However, what I do want to understand is the perception of all the stated degrees in the minds of leading UK law firms. While it makes absolute sense to say that the degrees are in themselves a stepping stone and not a golden key and that it depends a lot on the background of the graduate - could you guys please provide your idea of how a degree from these universities would play out post completion of these courses for an Indian lawyer with 3yr PQE? What all to keep in mind in this regard? Which one is more preferable over the other? Esp. for a masters in corporate and commercial law.  thanks in advance!!

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Gobbledygo...

454 117

Posted Jul 19, 2022 00:17

Thanks a tonne both -unleashedsoul and kikito. You guys have provided extremely candid and honest reviews.

However, what I do want to understand is the perception of all the stated degrees in the minds of leading UK law firms. While it makes absolute sense to say that the degrees are in themselves a stepping stone and not a golden key and that it depends a lot on the background of the graduate - could you guys please provide your idea of how a degree from these universities would play out post completion of these courses for an Indian lawyer with 3yr PQE? What all to keep in mind in this regard? Which one is more preferable over the other? Esp. for a masters in corporate and commercial law.

thanks in advance!!

Haven’t seen much of a difference between the oxbridge llm/Mcl/mlf/mjur as far as career shortly after graduation is concerned, tbh. The BCL is somewhat different, as it has traditionally been more of a programme for aspiring barristers. All of them require a U.K. first equivalent, though, as a minimum.

Most of the larger firms these days tend to have extremely lengthy application processes, meaning you might in some cases be applying already more or less when you start your degree. This is probably where oxbridge has a certain edge over the others, since you’d typically (unless you’re fine with staying up to a year after graduation I guess) be applying with only the uni name and no results to your name yet. Otherwise it really is just how well you can sell yourself and what you manage to make out of the process. When past the screening stage in the recruitment process, it’ll rather come down to your performance in all the various tests, etc, rather than the exact name of the degree you’re pursuing. Just have in mind that the market is very oversaturated, and there’s no guarantee on landing anything.

The three London unis are all fine institutions, although the more “traditional” minds would probably rate LSE>UCL>KCL.

As far as your background concerned, there’s not much details to go by. Three years working exp from a “leading law firm” sounds very generic LLM graduate from any of these unis tbh. The CV itself is fairly irrelevant for the LLM/BCL app, although I guess it’d be different for the McL/MLF. I doubt being Indian makes much of a difference either, except that Indians make up the majority of law grads at these schools (sometimes tied with Chinese), which I guess can make it harder to stand out(?). Also means a bigger network to potentially make use of, though.

[Edited by Gobbledygook on Jul 19, 2022]

[quote]Thanks a tonne both -unleashedsoul and kikito. You guys have provided extremely candid and honest reviews.  However, what I do want to understand is the perception of all the stated degrees in the minds of leading UK law firms. While it makes absolute sense to say that the degrees are in themselves a stepping stone and not a golden key and that it depends a lot on the background of the graduate - could you guys please provide your idea of how a degree from these universities would play out post completion of these courses for an Indian lawyer with 3yr PQE? What all to keep in mind in this regard? Which one is more preferable over the other? Esp. for a masters in corporate and commercial law.  thanks in advance!! [/quote] Haven’t seen much of a difference between the oxbridge llm/Mcl/mlf/mjur as far as career shortly after graduation is concerned, tbh. The BCL is somewhat different, as it has traditionally been more of a programme for aspiring barristers. All of them require a U.K. first equivalent, though, as a minimum.  Most of the larger firms these days tend to have extremely lengthy application processes, meaning you might in some cases be applying already more or less when you start your degree. This is probably where oxbridge has a certain edge over the others, since you’d typically (unless you’re fine with staying up to a year after graduation I guess) be applying with only the uni name and no results to your name yet. Otherwise it really is just how well you can sell yourself and what you manage to make out of the process. When past the screening stage in the recruitment process, it’ll rather come down to your performance in all the various tests, etc, rather than the exact name of the degree you’re pursuing. Just have in mind that the market is very oversaturated, and there’s no guarantee on landing anything.  The three London unis are all fine institutions, although the more “traditional” minds would probably rate LSE>UCL>KCL.  As far as your background concerned, there’s not much details to go by. Three years working exp from a “leading law firm” sounds very generic LLM graduate from any of these unis tbh. The CV itself is fairly irrelevant for the LLM/BCL app, although I guess it’d be different for the McL/MLF. I doubt being Indian makes much of a difference either, except that Indians make up the majority of law grads at these schools (sometimes tied with Chinese), which I guess can make it harder to stand out(?). Also means a bigger network to potentially make use of, though.

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