MA -Sciences-po or MA/J.D. Pantheon-Sorbonne???


MiddKid
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Goteborg
Middkid, I'm pretty familiar with the bind you're in but by now you've probably figured out that a Sciences Po degree will not enable you to do the CAPA courses required to take the French bar exams. For this you'll need a "Masters 1" from a French university (and the Sorbonne isn't a bad shot). If you do decide to go with the Sciences Po option though and specialize in economic law, you can get an equivalency for the first 3 years of university law studies (L1, L2 and L3) and then continue, as per special arrangement, with an M1 at the University of Nanterre.

By the way, if you can get into the double degree programme Sorbonne-Columbia in law, jump for it! There are only 2 candidates per year who are selected... so it's a LOT more selective than ScPo and they know it!
Middkid, I'm pretty familiar with the bind you're in but by now you've probably figured out that a Sciences Po degree will not enable you to do the CAPA courses required to take the French bar exams. For this you'll need a "Masters 1" from a French university (and the Sorbonne isn't a bad shot). If you do decide to go with the Sciences Po option though and specialize in economic law, you can get an equivalency for the first 3 years of university law studies (L1, L2 and L3) and then continue, as per special arrangement, with an M1 at the University of Nanterre.

By the way, if you can get into the double degree programme Sorbonne-Columbia in law, jump for it! There are only 2 candidates per year who are selected... so it's a LOT more selective than ScPo and they know it!
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Goteborg
Hi Middkid,
Please permit me to continue our discussion in this thread rather than per eMail... maybe it will help someone else some day too :-)

My understanding of equivalencies to get a university-based M1 in Law in France (thus enabling you to do the CAPA and bar exams) once you've obtained your masters in economic law at ScPo is that you have only a limited number of transfer options without having to repeat too many years of university-based law. ScPo has a special deal with Nanterre which allows you to slip right into their M1. I've also heard of ScPo students who've successfully negociated entering at L3-level at Pantheon-Assas (Paris II). NOTE: I don't believe that there's a generally valid equivalency between the ScPo program you're interested in, just the Nanterre equivalency. You can of course check out Nanterre on the internet. It's an awful pile of cement in the outskirts of Paris (with a good RER connection). That said, it doesn't have a bad reputation... Sarkozy went there :-)
My suggestion: contact the ScPo graduate admissions department directly and ask about your specific case. If you have a job offer in Paris in a law firm, then you may already have some law study credentials which will help. There are also a couple of other forums I can recommend (but don't take ANYONE'S advice, including mine, as the gospel... get what you need straight from the horses mouth!)
Here are the forums:
http://forum-scpo.com (general ScPo student forum... before you post, use their "search" function or they'll jump down your back)
http://www.village-justice.com/forum/ (check out the "formation initiale et cursus" thread)
http://13.alloforum.com/ (the forum of Paris II - Pantheon-Assas... "Assas" in short).
If I had my druthers, I'd choose Assas, but you'll have to see haw much time it would make you loose (compared to choosing Nanterre). The Sorbonne (on the M1 level) isn't bad either. Both have top names in France.

In general concerning your dilemma, there are a couple of other things you will find out if you look carefully at these forums:
- An M1 and 75 cents will get you on the subway (and on the one and a half year training track to take the bar exam). Most top students also specialize during an M2 year.
- ScPo is still relatively sexy but law firms tend to want lawyers with a good working knowledge of the basics, i.e. a "licence" as well. Check out the websites of the big firms located in Paris. They usually list short biographies of their staff, including their training.
Keep us posted. And just for the record, this is only stuff I know from my son who is going to study law at the Sorbonne next year rather than going to ScPo (assuming he would succeed at the "concours") exactly because he feels that the ScPo lable will be less valued, in the end, than a full, nuts-and-bolts law degree.
Hi Middkid,
Please permit me to continue our discussion in this thread rather than per eMail... maybe it will help someone else some day too :-)

My understanding of equivalencies to get a university-based M1 in Law in France (thus enabling you to do the CAPA and bar exams) once you've obtained your masters in economic law at ScPo is that you have only a limited number of transfer options without having to repeat too many years of university-based law. ScPo has a special deal with Nanterre which allows you to slip right into their M1. I've also heard of ScPo students who've successfully negociated entering at L3-level at Pantheon-Assas (Paris II). NOTE: I don't believe that there's a generally valid equivalency between the ScPo program you're interested in, just the Nanterre equivalency. You can of course check out Nanterre on the internet. It's an awful pile of cement in the outskirts of Paris (with a good RER connection). That said, it doesn't have a bad reputation... Sarkozy went there :-)
My suggestion: contact the ScPo graduate admissions department directly and ask about your specific case. If you have a job offer in Paris in a law firm, then you may already have some law study credentials which will help. There are also a couple of other forums I can recommend (but don't take ANYONE'S advice, including mine, as the gospel... get what you need straight from the horses mouth!)
Here are the forums:
http://forum-scpo.com (general ScPo student forum... before you post, use their "search" function or they'll jump down your back)
http://www.village-justice.com/forum/ (check out the "formation initiale et cursus" thread)
http://13.alloforum.com/ (the forum of Paris II - Pantheon-Assas... "Assas" in short).
If I had my druthers, I'd choose Assas, but you'll have to see haw much time it would make you loose (compared to choosing Nanterre). The Sorbonne (on the M1 level) isn't bad either. Both have top names in France.

In general concerning your dilemma, there are a couple of other things you will find out if you look carefully at these forums:
- An M1 and 75 cents will get you on the subway (and on the one and a half year training track to take the bar exam). Most top students also specialize during an M2 year.
- ScPo is still relatively sexy but law firms tend to want lawyers with a good working knowledge of the basics, i.e. a "licence" as well. Check out the websites of the big firms located in Paris. They usually list short biographies of their staff, including their training.
Keep us posted. And just for the record, this is only stuff I know from my son who is going to study law at the Sorbonne next year rather than going to ScPo (assuming he would succeed at the "concours") exactly because he feels that the ScPo lable will be less valued, in the end, than a full, nuts-and-bolts law degree.
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Goteborg
ScPo has a special deal with Nanterre which allows you to slip right into their M1.


ooops, I should have said Sceaux, not Nanterre, sorry Middkid.
<blockquote>ScPo has a special deal with Nanterre which allows you to slip right into their M1. </blockquote>

ooops, I should have said Sceaux, not Nanterre, sorry Middkid.
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MiddKid
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Goteborg
check out the following on the ScPo website. Might be just right for you.

"Une spécialité « Droit et globalisation économique », co-organisée avec lUniversité de Paris I.
Regroupant des étudiants de Sciences Po, des étudiants de lUniversité de Paris I et des étudiants de Law Schools nord-américaines, partenaires de Sciences Po, cette formation est davantage axée vers linternational et la dimension globale que le droit prend désormais.

Son suivi suppose une excellente maîtrise de langlais, les enseignements se pratiquant indifféremment en français ou en anglais.

Cette spécialité vise à doter les étudiants de connaissances opérationnelles en droit économique international, en conjuguant des enseignements de droit du marché, déconomie du commerce international, etc., dans une perspective à la fois comparative et internationaliste. Lentrée dans cette spécialité se fait par sélection et aboutit, pour les élèves de Sciences Po, à lobtention du diplôme de Sciences Po et du diplôme juridique de la spécialité. "

... but do confirm that the "diplôme juridique de la spécialité" is an M1 or M2 from the Sorbonne (in addition to the ScPo masters). If yes, you're in like flint to start your pre-bar exam training and courses.

I'd love to hear if they give you an answer :-)
check out the following on the ScPo website. Might be just right for you.

"Une spécialité « Droit et globalisation économique », co-organisée avec l’Université de Paris I.
Regroupant des étudiants de Sciences Po, des étudiants de l’Université de Paris I et des étudiants de Law Schools nord-américaines, partenaires de Sciences Po, cette formation est davantage axée vers l’international et la dimension globale que le droit prend désormais.

Son suivi suppose une excellente maîtrise de l’anglais, les enseignements se pratiquant indifféremment en français ou en anglais.

Cette spécialité vise à doter les étudiants de connaissances opérationnelles en droit économique international, en conjuguant des enseignements de droit du marché, d’économie du commerce international, etc., dans une perspective à la fois comparative et internationaliste. L’entrée dans cette spécialité se fait par sélection et aboutit, pour les élèves de Sciences Po, à l’obtention du diplôme de Sciences Po et du diplôme juridique de la spécialité. "

... but do confirm that the "diplôme juridique de la spécialité" is an M1 or M2 from the Sorbonne (in addition to the ScPo masters). If yes, you're in like flint to start your pre-bar exam training and courses.

I'd love to hear if they give you an answer :-)
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MiddKid
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Sprotch
I would not hesitate a second and go for the Columbia/Paris I option.

Not only is it prestigious, it will train you in both US (common law) and French (Civil law) systems. That's absolute gold to any legal employer.

Science Po is very good but will not give you the extra edge you will get out of a JD from Columbia.

Prestige is subjective, but imho and based on hearsay, the Columbia/Paris I option is far more prestigious.

I would not hesitate a second and go for the Columbia/Paris I option.

Not only is it prestigious, it will train you in both US (common law) and French (Civil law) systems. That's absolute gold to any legal employer.

Science Po is very good but will not give you the extra edge you will get out of a JD from Columbia.

Prestige is subjective, but imho and based on hearsay, the Columbia/Paris I option is far more prestigious.
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MiddKid
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MiddKid
oh yea by the way im still looking for "logement'.. anyone?? =D
oh yea by the way im still looking for "logement'.. anyone?? =D
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Sprotch
Yes, it's really hard. The good thing is I think you only pay Paris I fees, which are quite cheap by US standard.

Have you looked at the Paris I/King's College Option or the Paris II/Cambridge University option too?
Yes, it's really hard. The good thing is I think you only pay Paris I fees, which are quite cheap by US standard.

Have you looked at the Paris I/King's College Option or the Paris II/Cambridge University option too?
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cm_gr

Have you looked at the Paris I/King's College Option or the Paris II/Cambridge University option too?


Could you PLEASE give some more information concerning these programmes? Is there any internet address where I can get to know more about them?
Thanx a lot in advance
<blockquote>
Have you looked at the Paris I/King's College Option or the Paris II/Cambridge University option too?</blockquote>

Could you PLEASE give some more information concerning these programmes? Is there any internet address where I can get to know more about them?
Thanx a lot in advance
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Sprotch
Paris I/King's:
http://www.univ-paris1.fr/formation/juridique_politique/ufr07/formations/doubles_diplomes_binationaux/double_diplome_en_droits_francais_et_anglais/article762.html

Paris II/Cambridge:
http://www.u-paris2.fr/html/lmd/lmd_double_diplome.htm
www.u-paris2.fr/html/international/fichiers/candidature_Cambridge.PDF

Obviously the PII/Cambridge one is slightly more prestigious but is harder to get into...

Paris I/King's:
http://www.univ-paris1.fr/formation/juridique_politique/ufr07/formations/doubles_diplomes_binationaux/double_diplome_en_droits_francais_et_anglais/article762.html

Paris II/Cambridge:
http://www.u-paris2.fr/html/lmd/lmd_double_diplome.htm
www.u-paris2.fr/html/international/fichiers/candidature_Cambridge.PDF

Obviously the PII/Cambridge one is slightly more prestigious but is harder to get into...
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Sprotch
Looks like it's too late for this year, but I understand that most applicants are not straight out of high school.
Looks like it's too late for this year, but I understand that most applicants are not straight out of high school.
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MiddKid
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cm_gr
Thanx Sprotch! But it's not really an LLM (or an M2 in french) but some kind of LLB. This is my understanding. Am I right??

Thanx again.
Thanx Sprotch! But it's not really an LLM (or an M2 in french) but some kind of LLB. This is my understanding. Am I right??

Thanx again.
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Sprotch
You will get an English LLB and a French M1 in 4 years, ie the time it would have taken you to get a M1 under the French system and just one more year than it normally takes to get a LLB.

With a Paris I or II M1 and a King's or Cambridge LLB you will have no difficulty getting a good LLM or M2.

The hard part is getting into these programs.
You will get an English LLB and a French M1 in 4 years, ie the time it would have taken you to get a M1 under the French system and just one more year than it normally takes to get a LLB.

With a Paris I or II M1 and a King's or Cambridge LLB you will have no difficulty getting a good LLM or M2.

The hard part is getting into these programs.
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