UK LLB-BARRISTER NSW?


tommey
Im currently completing my LLB degree at nottingham trent university. Upon completion i hope to progress onto the BPTC. If i do not find a pupillage in the uk after 2 years my plan is to move to australia nsw and practice as a barrister there.

But.....

How do i do this?

Is my law degree sufficient?

Do i have to study more? if so how long?

What are the realities of me getting a pupillage over in nsw even with a 1st?

Will i be at a disadvantage, therefore is it more 'suitable' for me to go and do a full law degree?


Thanks to whoever answers :)
Im currently completing my LLB degree at nottingham trent university. Upon completion i hope to progress onto the BPTC. If i do not find a pupillage in the uk after 2 years my plan is to move to australia nsw and practice as a barrister there.

But.....

How do i do this?

Is my law degree sufficient?

Do i have to study more? if so how long?

What are the realities of me getting a pupillage over in nsw even with a 1st?

Will i be at a disadvantage, therefore is it more 'suitable' for me to go and do a full law degree?


Thanks to whoever answers :)
quote
Im currently completing my LLB degree at nottingham trent university. Upon completion i hope to progress onto the BPTC. If i do not find a pupillage in the uk after 2 years my plan is to move to australia nsw and practice as a barrister there.

But.....

How do i do this?

Is my law degree sufficient?

Do i have to study more? if so how long?

What are the realities of me getting a pupillage over in nsw even with a 1st?

Will i be at a disadvantage, therefore is it more 'suitable' for me to go and do a full law degree?


Thanks to whoever answers :)


Hi,

I'll suggest that you should not waste your time and money to retake another LLB. UK LLB are partially recognised. You will need to get your LLB assessed by the Legal Board and then enrol yourself with a Univerisity in Australia which provides those courses. As to the duration to complete the academic requirements, it solely depends on the semester which your subject is available. This is set by the University. Afterwhich, you will need to undertake your Practical Training Course. I do not think that there will be any preference for those with an Australian LLB and those with non-Australian LLB, because you will have to 'top up' those Australian law subjects anyway. I'm not so sure about other states, but for NSW, the PTC only comprises of a Coursework component, Work experience (can be retrospective) and a Continuing Development course which is just some seminar requirements.

Hope this helps. :)
<blockquote>Im currently completing my LLB degree at nottingham trent university. Upon completion i hope to progress onto the BPTC. If i do not find a pupillage in the uk after 2 years my plan is to move to australia nsw and practice as a barrister there.

But.....

How do i do this?

Is my law degree sufficient?

Do i have to study more? if so how long?

What are the realities of me getting a pupillage over in nsw even with a 1st?

Will i be at a disadvantage, therefore is it more 'suitable' for me to go and do a full law degree?


Thanks to whoever answers :)</blockquote>

Hi,

I'll suggest that you should not waste your time and money to retake another LLB. UK LLB are partially recognised. You will need to get your LLB assessed by the Legal Board and then enrol yourself with a Univerisity in Australia which provides those courses. As to the duration to complete the academic requirements, it solely depends on the semester which your subject is available. This is set by the University. Afterwhich, you will need to undertake your Practical Training Course. I do not think that there will be any preference for those with an Australian LLB and those with non-Australian LLB, because you will have to 'top up' those Australian law subjects anyway. I'm not so sure about other states, but for NSW, the PTC only comprises of a Coursework component, Work experience (can be retrospective) and a Continuing Development course which is just some seminar requirements.

Hope this helps. :)
quote
barmenator
Why would you not find pupillage in your homeland for a 2-year period? Isn't pupillage almost free of charge? Why is it that hard?

You are thinking of redoing an LLB and pupillage elsewhere? My God, have you thought that being admitted to practice in AU most probably will take you more than those 2 years, a lot of $, and no guarantee at all?

Bear in mind "grass always looks greener on the other side". But, it isn't necessarily this way. Calmly consider your pros and cons, and don't take desperate action.

Why if you don't want to lose 2 years getting a pupillage, would you waste them studying all over again? In the end, you will still need to undergo the same process of finding a pupillage in Australia. I just don't see the point of losing more time, over time lost.

Without further details provided, finding a job anywhere overseas, will always be more difficult (and much more expensive too) than at home.

Focus 100% on getting that pupillage, and you will sooner than later land it. Try using your personal, academic and professional network at once.

Good luck!
Why would you not find pupillage in your homeland for a 2-year period? Isn't pupillage almost free of charge? Why is it that hard?

You are thinking of redoing an LLB and pupillage elsewhere? My God, have you thought that being admitted to practice in AU most probably will take you more than those 2 years, a lot of $, and no guarantee at all?

Bear in mind "grass always looks greener on the other side". But, it isn't necessarily this way. Calmly consider your pros and cons, and don't take desperate action.

Why if you don't want to lose 2 years getting a pupillage, would you waste them studying all over again? In the end, you will still need to undergo the same process of finding a pupillage in Australia. I just don't see the point of losing more time, over time lost.

Without further details provided, finding a job anywhere overseas, will always be more difficult (and much more expensive too) than at home.

Focus 100% on getting that pupillage, and you will sooner than later land it. Try using your personal, academic and professional network at once.

Good luck!
quote
chrisdb23
Hi,

I am a practising barrister in England, and perhaps can offer some assistance in terms of giving a perspective on the pupillage hunt over here.

Finding a pupillage always has been an nightmare, but particularly in recent years, it has become near enough impossible to obtain without the odd bit of luck and the right CV. The search for pupillage is horrendously oversubscribed, with the ratio of graduates to pupillages ranging from about 5 to 1, to 10 to 1, depending on the law school you went to etc. Pupillages have also gone down by 20-30% over the last year or so. Finally there are a number of changes going on to the legal profession, in particular the Bar, which leave it fairly uncertain as to its future.

So I can definitely see the motivation behind contemplating moving to Australia in search of a pupillage.

I'm not sure what you meant by pupillages being 'free of charge' over here? Historically a pupil would have to pay money themselves to their Pupil Master; the rules changed and then there was simply no money that changed hands; finally employment laws caught up and now pupils are paid a set award in the first 6 months, and then either given a further award in the second 6 months, or the Chambers will guarantee that they will earn a certain amount in that period (when they are on their feet practising in court).

What I would be very grateful of however is a perspective from Australia. Does anybody here practise as a barrister there? I am giving some serious thought to making a move and trying to cross-qualify and obtain a tenancy at a Chambers in Australia, however I am fairly clueless in terms of how things work there.

Could anybody tell me how easy it is to cross-qualify from another jurisdiction? I have read that even with a law degree, BVC (the old bar exams in England pre-BPTC) and perhaps some years in practice, I would still need to complete a further course in Australia (which I would expect). Does anybody know exactly what this course would entail, and the length?

I would also be interested to know what the process is and/or how easy it is to apply for a tenancy, or indeed a pupillage, in Australia.

I also understand that the Bar is fairly similar in Australia to the Bar in England and Wales; are there are substantial differences I should know about however? Are many barristers also self-employed there?

Sorry if I have hijacked this post (in which case please tell me and I will re-post), or if this forum isn't the appropriate place for such questions (in which case I'll go elsewhere!)

Many thanks in advance,

CDB
Hi,

I am a practising barrister in England, and perhaps can offer some assistance in terms of giving a perspective on the pupillage hunt over here.

Finding a pupillage always has been an nightmare, but particularly in recent years, it has become near enough impossible to obtain without the odd bit of luck and the right CV. The search for pupillage is horrendously oversubscribed, with the ratio of graduates to pupillages ranging from about 5 to 1, to 10 to 1, depending on the law school you went to etc. Pupillages have also gone down by 20-30% over the last year or so. Finally there are a number of changes going on to the legal profession, in particular the Bar, which leave it fairly uncertain as to its future.

So I can definitely see the motivation behind contemplating moving to Australia in search of a pupillage.

I'm not sure what you meant by pupillages being 'free of charge' over here? Historically a pupil would have to pay money themselves to their Pupil Master; the rules changed and then there was simply no money that changed hands; finally employment laws caught up and now pupils are paid a set award in the first 6 months, and then either given a further award in the second 6 months, or the Chambers will guarantee that they will earn a certain amount in that period (when they are on their feet practising in court).

What I would be very grateful of however is a perspective from Australia. Does anybody here practise as a barrister there? I am giving some serious thought to making a move and trying to cross-qualify and obtain a tenancy at a Chambers in Australia, however I am fairly clueless in terms of how things work there.

Could anybody tell me how easy it is to cross-qualify from another jurisdiction? I have read that even with a law degree, BVC (the old bar exams in England pre-BPTC) and perhaps some years in practice, I would still need to complete a further course in Australia (which I would expect). Does anybody know exactly what this course would entail, and the length?

I would also be interested to know what the process is and/or how easy it is to apply for a tenancy, or indeed a pupillage, in Australia.

I also understand that the Bar is fairly similar in Australia to the Bar in England and Wales; are there are substantial differences I should know about however? Are many barristers also self-employed there?

Sorry if I have hijacked this post (in which case please tell me and I will re-post), or if this forum isn't the appropriate place for such questions (in which case I'll go elsewhere!)

Many thanks in advance,

CDB
quote
barmenator
Cross-qualifying to a different jurisdiction or bar has always been difficult.

Law isn't a subject designed originally to move out. Why? because laws are made different in every place.

Yes, you might be able to move, and get credit transfer, but:
a) You'll have no professional network
b) No domestic law studies
c) No work permit
d) Thus, very very little chance of success

Things for lawyers have become more competitive, practically, everywhere on the globe. Why? Because people coming from mid-west have practically flooded the markets, therfore ramping up the supply, and ramping down the price.

Just in China and India, there's 1.3 and 1.2 billion people, respectively. Together (2.5 billon) practically half of the world's population (6 billion).

Uk, Australia, Canada, US, and practically all developed industrialized countries have the same problem: excessive immigration. That is why immigration laws are getting tougher everytime, and why you now have to land the job from overseas to have a sponsor. And he/she would have to explain to the local government why he/she didn't hire a domestic national (with a change of getting in trouble).

As I see it, your only hope is to study a complete Law degree in such place where you intend to move and live. That way, you might be able to build a professional network, and you might compete on a more equal basis with domestic nationals. Otherwise, your chances are basically none.

If I were you, I'd give it a 2nd thought!
Cross-qualifying to a different jurisdiction or bar has always been difficult.

Law isn't a subject designed originally to move out. Why? because laws are made different in every place.

Yes, you might be able to move, and get credit transfer, but:
a) You'll have no professional network
b) No domestic law studies
c) No work permit
d) Thus, very very little chance of success

Things for lawyers have become more competitive, practically, everywhere on the globe. Why? Because people coming from mid-west have practically flooded the markets, therfore ramping up the supply, and ramping down the price.

Just in China and India, there's 1.3 and 1.2 billion people, respectively. Together (2.5 billon) practically half of the world's population (6 billion).

Uk, Australia, Canada, US, and practically all developed industrialized countries have the same problem: excessive immigration. That is why immigration laws are getting tougher everytime, and why you now have to land the job from overseas to have a sponsor. And he/she would have to explain to the local government why he/she didn't hire a domestic national (with a change of getting in trouble).

As I see it, your only hope is to study a complete Law degree in such place where you intend to move and live. That way, you might be able to build a professional network, and you might compete on a more equal basis with domestic nationals. Otherwise, your chances are basically none.

If I were you, I'd give it a 2nd thought!
quote

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