LLB vs JD


derekch
Hi, I know this is a LLM forum... but I'm just wondering whether it's better to get a graduate LLB or JD in australia? I'm considering to practice there and do anybody know what are employers' preferences?
Also can anyone comment on these programs:
Monash LLB
UTS JD
ANU JD
Hi, I know this is a LLM forum... but I'm just wondering whether it's better to get a graduate LLB or JD in australia? I'm considering to practice there and do anybody know what are employers' preferences?
Also can anyone comment on these programs:
Monash LLB
UTS JD
ANU JD
quote
murrdah
All of this information is stuff that I have gathered from doing my own independent research, speaking with uni reps, and current and past law students in Oz. So please don't take my work as the be all and end all.

From my understanding the JD is a new thing in Oz, so I don't know if many people will know about the programs and how employers view them because thier grads have yet to be exposed to the working world. Most schools use the JD as a purely graduate degree. Meaning that you have to have a undergrad degree to enter. That is really what differentiates it from the LLB. The JD is offered throughout the US and it is starting to gain headway in Canada too.

Monash actually has a JD too. Why aren't you applying to that course? ANU is ranked one of the best law schools in Oz for research but Canberra is cold and boring. UTS doesn't have as good a reputation as ANU or Monash (both Go8 schools).

I guess the best advice someone could give at this point is to choose a university where you intend to practice after finishing your degree. If you want to be in Victoria, go to Monash, or Tasmania go to UTS, Canberra ANU. Of course you could always decide to practice in a different place than where you got your degree, but in my understanding is that employers look more favorably at Monash in Victoria for example than they do in NSW.

Hope that helps.

I applied to Monash's JD, U of Melbourne JD, and LaTrobes LLB. Still waiting to hear back from Monash and Melbourne.
All of this information is stuff that I have gathered from doing my own independent research, speaking with uni reps, and current and past law students in Oz. So please don't take my work as the be all and end all.

From my understanding the JD is a new thing in Oz, so I don't know if many people will know about the programs and how employers view them because thier grads have yet to be exposed to the working world. Most schools use the JD as a purely graduate degree. Meaning that you have to have a undergrad degree to enter. That is really what differentiates it from the LLB. The JD is offered throughout the US and it is starting to gain headway in Canada too.

Monash actually has a JD too. Why aren't you applying to that course? ANU is ranked one of the best law schools in Oz for research but Canberra is cold and boring. UTS doesn't have as good a reputation as ANU or Monash (both Go8 schools).

I guess the best advice someone could give at this point is to choose a university where you intend to practice after finishing your degree. If you want to be in Victoria, go to Monash, or Tasmania go to UTS, Canberra ANU. Of course you could always decide to practice in a different place than where you got your degree, but in my understanding is that employers look more favorably at Monash in Victoria for example than they do in NSW.

Hope that helps.

I applied to Monash's JD, U of Melbourne JD, and LaTrobes LLB. Still waiting to hear back from Monash and Melbourne.
quote
derekch
I'm not really sure where I want to practice. I've been to Sydney before but have not been to Melbourne. Personally I loved Sydney because its such a great city! I have friends who visited both Melbourne and Sydney, but they prefer Melbourne for reasons of it being less hectic and more beautiful. Obviously, the deciding factor would be whether I actually liked the place.
Oh and btw, Im not referring UTS as to Uni of Tasmania. UTS is a university in NSW and its a tier 2 law school from what I heard in NSW (with uni of sydney and nsw being first tier), but its considered number 3 in NSW (on par with Macquarie U). UTS law graduates have high employment rates and their faculty boasts on their close links with the legal industry, and their courses have been structured to be practically relevant.
I did consider the Monash JD, but now its abit too late to apply since applications have closed for Feb 2009. They have yet to reply to my enquiry about their JD program.

I've also looked at the curriculum of the JDs in Australia. They offer less units than LLB (most LLBs do more sessions on certain core subjects such as two sessions of contracts, criminal law, etc). I wonder if employers will prefer LLB graduates who have been exposed to more academic rigor (more law subjects?).
I'm not really sure where I want to practice. I've been to Sydney before but have not been to Melbourne. Personally I loved Sydney because its such a great city! I have friends who visited both Melbourne and Sydney, but they prefer Melbourne for reasons of it being less hectic and more beautiful. Obviously, the deciding factor would be whether I actually liked the place.
Oh and btw, Im not referring UTS as to Uni of Tasmania. UTS is a university in NSW and its a tier 2 law school from what I heard in NSW (with uni of sydney and nsw being first tier), but its considered number 3 in NSW (on par with Macquarie U). UTS law graduates have high employment rates and their faculty boasts on their close links with the legal industry, and their courses have been structured to be practically relevant.
I did consider the Monash JD, but now its abit too late to apply since applications have closed for Feb 2009. They have yet to reply to my enquiry about their JD program.

I've also looked at the curriculum of the JDs in Australia. They offer less units than LLB (most LLBs do more sessions on certain core subjects such as two sessions of contracts, criminal law, etc). I wonder if employers will prefer LLB graduates who have been exposed to more academic rigor (more law subjects?).
quote
murrdah
You don't really have to consider exactly where you want to practice at this point, but I think you do have to consider something like that before making a commitment to school for 3 or more years.

On the Sydney vs Melbourne debate I am sure they are both great cities to live in. I have been to both and choose to study in Melbourne because it is slightly cheaper and more bohemian than Sydney. However, Sydney has culture too, and easily accessible beaches. Sydney's weather is also better. I have also lived in Perth and considered studying there for my degree but it seems too remote like Tasmania....he he.

It seems that we are in similar situations I also applied to two Go8 schools (Monash and Melbourne) and one tier 2 law school (LaTrobe). I am flirting with the idea of attending LaTrobe because of their program and what they "offer" but I am unsure about attending a non-Go8 school in Oz. I am not Australian and have been told to make sure to attend a school with a strong international and national reputation. LaTrobe and UTS don't really fit this mold being that they are considered tier 2 schools in Oz and not really ranked internationally.

Apparently Monash is tardy with the majority of their replies and it's always best to call them.

I don't know where to weigh in on the JD/LLB debate. I would assume that employers won't really care. What will matter are your grades, PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, and the school you went to. Not the degree. In Canada where the LLB and JD system are both used. Employer's don't prefer one over the other, they are considered effectively the same thing.

Hope this helps,
You don't really have to consider exactly where you want to practice at this point, but I think you do have to consider something like that before making a commitment to school for 3 or more years.

On the Sydney vs Melbourne debate I am sure they are both great cities to live in. I have been to both and choose to study in Melbourne because it is slightly cheaper and more bohemian than Sydney. However, Sydney has culture too, and easily accessible beaches. Sydney's weather is also better. I have also lived in Perth and considered studying there for my degree but it seems too remote like Tasmania....he he.

It seems that we are in similar situations I also applied to two Go8 schools (Monash and Melbourne) and one tier 2 law school (LaTrobe). I am flirting with the idea of attending LaTrobe because of their program and what they "offer" but I am unsure about attending a non-Go8 school in Oz. I am not Australian and have been told to make sure to attend a school with a strong international and national reputation. LaTrobe and UTS don't really fit this mold being that they are considered tier 2 schools in Oz and not really ranked internationally.

Apparently Monash is tardy with the majority of their replies and it's always best to call them.

I don't know where to weigh in on the JD/LLB debate. I would assume that employers won't really care. What will matter are your grades, PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, and the school you went to. Not the degree. In Canada where the LLB and JD system are both used. Employer's don't prefer one over the other, they are considered effectively the same thing.

Hope this helps,

quote
derekch
Yup, I would agree that grades and experience are the crucial factors for securing an employment, especially for something competitive like law.
I guess both the LLB/JD ain't really different for employers. Australia has been conferring LLBs all the while anyway. Its just that JD sounds much better than LLB!
I hope you do get into your desired course (melb or monash). If you do get into Monash, and if I do go for the Monash LLB, I'll see you next year! Haha.

I still would like to hear from others who have anything to add to our discussion. Thanks!!!
Yup, I would agree that grades and experience are the crucial factors for securing an employment, especially for something competitive like law.
I guess both the LLB/JD ain't really different for employers. Australia has been conferring LLBs all the while anyway. Its just that JD sounds much better than LLB!
I hope you do get into your desired course (melb or monash). If you do get into Monash, and if I do go for the Monash LLB, I'll see you next year! Haha.

I still would like to hear from others who have anything to add to our discussion. Thanks!!!
quote
Gregor2009
Hello Derek,

There are also valuable intangible benefits you MAY get out of reading for a JD degree (as compared to a LLB degree). However, this would be dependant on the institution you are going to.

For example, at Monash University where the JD class size is more, you get to make a stronger/closer knit network of friends from day 1 because everyone is more or less on the same study plan. Whereas in a LLB degree it is basically like a like 'factory' and the personal attention you get from Faculty members is much lesser.

In terms of class contact, I can't really comment because I have always been under the impression that JD students have the same number of contact hours as LLB students for each subject - the duration of the JD program might be shorter because they discount 0.5 or 1 year off on the basis that students already have a prior degree and have no need to complete 'free' electives within the university.

Another issue you might want to consider is cost. Are you able to fork out a larger sum of money in the short run? Particularly, JD programs are slightly more expensive compared to LLB because universities have dedicated resources to support the running of the JD program. If, however, you are looking at the ANU JD then it would be different because I think both JD and LLB students are streamed into the same classes (JD students just get to do LLM electives over at ANU).

Best would be to narrow down the jurisdiction in which you would like to practice. If you are looking at Melbourne then you will likely be completing the JD because it is the state which JD degrees are more popular in Australia. If it is Sydney then it would likely be the LLB because NSW's leading universities like UNSW and USyd do not have a JD program.

I hope that this assists! Let me know if you need more information - happy to share my opinion!

Cheers,
Greg
Hello Derek,

There are also valuable intangible benefits you MAY get out of reading for a JD degree (as compared to a LLB degree). However, this would be dependant on the institution you are going to.

For example, at Monash University where the JD class size is more, you get to make a stronger/closer knit network of friends from day 1 because everyone is more or less on the same study plan. Whereas in a LLB degree it is basically like a like 'factory' and the personal attention you get from Faculty members is much lesser.

In terms of class contact, I can't really comment because I have always been under the impression that JD students have the same number of contact hours as LLB students for each subject - the duration of the JD program might be shorter because they discount 0.5 or 1 year off on the basis that students already have a prior degree and have no need to complete 'free' electives within the university.

Another issue you might want to consider is cost. Are you able to fork out a larger sum of money in the short run? Particularly, JD programs are slightly more expensive compared to LLB because universities have dedicated resources to support the running of the JD program. If, however, you are looking at the ANU JD then it would be different because I think both JD and LLB students are streamed into the same classes (JD students just get to do LLM electives over at ANU).

Best would be to narrow down the jurisdiction in which you would like to practice. If you are looking at Melbourne then you will likely be completing the JD because it is the state which JD degrees are more popular in Australia. If it is Sydney then it would likely be the LLB because NSW's leading universities like UNSW and USyd do not have a JD program.

I hope that this assists! Let me know if you need more information - happy to share my opinion!

Cheers,
Greg
quote
derekch
Thanks for the reply, Greg!

Which law school did you attend? Monash?
Since it's a bit late to apply for the JD, do Monash allow transfers into their JD program? Last I read from their site, they do give credit for previous law studies, but I wonder if I could transfer from the Monash LLB to the JD after a year of study (since I already applied to the LLB and got an offer)?
Thanks for the reply, Greg!

Which law school did you attend? Monash?
Since it's a bit late to apply for the JD, do Monash allow transfers into their JD program? Last I read from their site, they do give credit for previous law studies, but I wonder if I could transfer from the Monash LLB to the JD after a year of study (since I already applied to the LLB and got an offer)?
quote
Gregor2009
Hello Derek,

I attended the JD program over at the University of Queensland - they are not running it anymore though. Yes, as far as I am aware Monash permits students to tranfer into their JD program. However, as the LLB is technically a undergraduate program the university might have restrictions allowing you to transfer credit into a postgraduate JD program. You need to double-check this with Monash Faculty - I would recommend you talk to them about your transfer options and whether they could accept you as a late applicant into their JD program.

If you are set on the JD, I would recommend starting in the JD (rather than transferring in) - your experience would be much better.

Cheers,
Greg
Hello Derek,

I attended the JD program over at the University of Queensland - they are not running it anymore though. Yes, as far as I am aware Monash permits students to tranfer into their JD program. However, as the LLB is technically a undergraduate program the university might have restrictions allowing you to transfer credit into a postgraduate JD program. You need to double-check this with Monash Faculty - I would recommend you talk to them about your transfer options and whether they could accept you as a late applicant into their JD program.

If you are set on the JD, I would recommend starting in the JD (rather than transferring in) - your experience would be much better.

Cheers,
Greg
quote
derekch
Hi greg, thanks for your advice! Much appreciated.
Hi greg, thanks for your advice! Much appreciated.
quote

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