AUS LLM?


Hi, I am a US JD, thinking about applying for an LLM in International Trade, and Comparative Law in AUS, but I am torn between Bond, Queensland, and La Trobe can anyone tell me which is better.
Hi, I am a US JD, thinking about applying for an LLM in International Trade, and Comparative Law in AUS, but I am torn between Bond, Queensland, and La Trobe can anyone tell me which is better.
quote
LM
Mate, I cannot tell you about La Trobe, but I have done a Law degree at Bond. In Australia we can do Law as undergraduates - which is what I did. But, the JD and the LL.M programs have courses that I took as an undergrad - you, as an LLM, will have a different assessment structure. I cannot speak highly enough of the place - it is private, small and personalised. Tutorial sizes are limited so each student gets the most out of the learning environment. The top Bond graduates are all working in Australia's biggest firms and in London and the US. There is a strong emphasis on legal skills (negotiation, advocacy, drafting etc) which I have found employers to be most fond of.
I spent most of my time with the undergrads and JD students - didnt have much to do with the Master's students - I am not sure if there was not many of them, or they just blended in with the crowd. So I cant tell you what they thought.
Like any place, you get out of something what you make of it. You will find the personal approach to be a big factor as well as the practicality of the degree (as apposed to straight theory).
I am sure you have spent time on the web site - send an email through to the Post grad admin chick - I think Kerri still handles that. International Trade is a stream that is offered. Have a look at the link below - it contains the subjects offered.
I hope this helps. I rate the place. It has done well for me. Also, great weather! I suppose with anything, your decision will depend on what your employer thinks, or if you're not employed, will Bond be able to land you a job in the States easier than La Trobe? I dont know the answer to that question - Bond is only 20 years old, so perhaps some in the US have not heard of Bond. That all depends on your situation.
All the best.
I hope someone with experience from La Trobe gives you a reply and you can make an informed decision. Anyway, here is half of iwhat you need.
Leigh
Mate, I cannot tell you about La Trobe, but I have done a Law degree at Bond. In Australia we can do Law as undergraduates - which is what I did. But, the JD and the LL.M programs have courses that I took as an undergrad - you, as an LLM, will have a different assessment structure. I cannot speak highly enough of the place - it is private, small and personalised. Tutorial sizes are limited so each student gets the most out of the learning environment. The top Bond graduates are all working in Australia's biggest firms and in London and the US. There is a strong emphasis on legal skills (negotiation, advocacy, drafting etc) which I have found employers to be most fond of.
I spent most of my time with the undergrads and JD students - didnt have much to do with the Master's students - I am not sure if there was not many of them, or they just blended in with the crowd. So I cant tell you what they thought.
Like any place, you get out of something what you make of it. You will find the personal approach to be a big factor as well as the practicality of the degree (as apposed to straight theory).
I am sure you have spent time on the web site - send an email through to the Post grad admin chick - I think Kerri still handles that. International Trade is a stream that is offered. Have a look at the link below - it contains the subjects offered.
I hope this helps. I rate the place. It has done well for me. Also, great weather! I suppose with anything, your decision will depend on what your employer thinks, or if you're not employed, will Bond be able to land you a job in the States easier than La Trobe? I dont know the answer to that question - Bond is only 20 years old, so perhaps some in the US have not heard of Bond. That all depends on your situation.
All the best.
I hope someone with experience from La Trobe gives you a reply and you can make an informed decision. Anyway, here is half of iwhat you need.
Leigh


quote
Russ
LM, that's really an informative post about Bond. I don't know much about Bond, but I once came across their website and I was impressed that they offer something like 50 types of combined LLMs and other Masters ;-)

As regards La Trobe, I would recommend to take a look at the threads below. The contributors seem to be quite satisfied with the LLM at La Trobe. I would just PM them to get some first hand information. Some of them even publish their email addresses and offer help to those interested in the programme.

http://www.llm-guide.com/board/6681
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10936
LM, that's really an informative post about Bond. I don't know much about Bond, but I once came across their website and I was impressed that they offer something like 50 types of combined LLMs and other Masters ;-)

As regards La Trobe, I would recommend to take a look at the threads below. The contributors seem to be quite satisfied with the LLM at La Trobe. I would just PM them to get some first hand information. Some of them even publish their email addresses and offer help to those interested in the programme.

http://www.llm-guide.com/board/6681
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10936
quote
capa
G'Day! Glad to hear you're interested in Australia. I have given careful consideration to the options here in Australia. Incidentially, my special research area is COMPARATIVE AUSTRALIAN AND US LAW and some of it published in a journal of one of the law schools you are interested in so I may be able to help more (feel free to PM me if you like).

I study in Victoria, Australia. La Trobe is in my state and is a good university. It is considered third behind U of Melbourne and Monash U. It has a good reputation, but, clearly, Melbourne and Monash are miles ahead. It has established an international LLM and is a good uni. As of 2008, its law school will be in Melbourne CBD - together with Melbourne, Monash chambers (where masters classes are held) and the new Victoria uni law building.

In Queensland you have Bond U and U of Queensland.

U of Queensland is, together with Melb and Monash, one of the G8 universities and has a wonderful reputation. Australia wide, it would probably be ranked 5th or 6th behind ANU, Melb, Monash, Sydney and maybe on par with UNSW. U of Q has a great reputation and is a strong research university attracting good government funding. My professor regards U of Q as one of the best mate. Also in Queensland there is Griffith and QUT which are worth considering.

Bond is the only private university in Australia. For this reason it attracts lots of suspicion, but, I have met one of its graduates at an interview with a top firm here in Melbourne and she said it is a fantastic university. It is on the gold coast too so you can hit the waves and even have a GREAT TIME. There are afew prominant alumni of Bond and Bond offers substantial scholarships to some students. Good research facilities and the like but, it has not been around very long so it lacks a certain amount of prestige.

As far as reputation goes, I would advise you to consider a G8 university for a postgraduate degree. These are the top research universities in Australia - kind of the same concept to the Ivy League in the US, Russell Group in the UK, Coimbra group in the EU etc.

From memory group of eight would be:
- ANU
- Melbourne
- Monash
- Sydney
- UNSW
- Adelaide
- Queensland!!!, and... and.. hmmmm
- Western Australia

I hope this all makes sense.
G'Day! Glad to hear you're interested in Australia. I have given careful consideration to the options here in Australia. Incidentially, my special research area is COMPARATIVE AUSTRALIAN AND US LAW and some of it published in a journal of one of the law schools you are interested in so I may be able to help more (feel free to PM me if you like).

I study in Victoria, Australia. La Trobe is in my state and is a good university. It is considered third behind U of Melbourne and Monash U. It has a good reputation, but, clearly, Melbourne and Monash are miles ahead. It has established an international LLM and is a good uni. As of 2008, its law school will be in Melbourne CBD - together with Melbourne, Monash chambers (where masters classes are held) and the new Victoria uni law building.

In Queensland you have Bond U and U of Queensland.

U of Queensland is, together with Melb and Monash, one of the G8 universities and has a wonderful reputation. Australia wide, it would probably be ranked 5th or 6th behind ANU, Melb, Monash, Sydney and maybe on par with UNSW. U of Q has a great reputation and is a strong research university attracting good government funding. My professor regards U of Q as one of the best mate. Also in Queensland there is Griffith and QUT which are worth considering.

Bond is the only private university in Australia. For this reason it attracts lots of suspicion, but, I have met one of its graduates at an interview with a top firm here in Melbourne and she said it is a fantastic university. It is on the gold coast too so you can hit the waves and even have a GREAT TIME. There are afew prominant alumni of Bond and Bond offers substantial scholarships to some students. Good research facilities and the like but, it has not been around very long so it lacks a certain amount of prestige.

As far as reputation goes, I would advise you to consider a G8 university for a postgraduate degree. These are the top research universities in Australia - kind of the same concept to the Ivy League in the US, Russell Group in the UK, Coimbra group in the EU etc.

From memory group of eight would be:
- ANU
- Melbourne
- Monash
- Sydney
- UNSW
- Adelaide
- Queensland!!!, and... and.. hmmmm
- Western Australia

I hope this all makes sense.
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ielts must or not
ielts must or not
quote
I support everything LM said regarding Bond - I am a current LLB student there and I have got to say that it is a wonderful university. I'm completing the International Trade Law stream as an undergrad and find the courses fantastic, although the postgrads get even more choice than we do. I do know quite a few LLM students here - it's true that there aren't too many - perhaps 40 at any one time. Still, they have all been happy as far as I can tell.

If you weren't to choose Bond, I would choose UQ over La Trobe. While Melbourne is a rocking city, better than Brisbane in my opinion, La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities of Australia - the G8 outlined have a better reputation within and, I would expect, without Australia. I find it hard to believe that La Trobe's name has made it too far. On the other hand, most people seem to have heard of Bond (probably because of the large number of international students here, who go home and spread the word!) and UQ because it is established and they have excellent international mooters.

if you need any further info just let me know!
I support everything LM said regarding Bond - I am a current LLB student there and I have got to say that it is a wonderful university. I'm completing the International Trade Law stream as an undergrad and find the courses fantastic, although the postgrads get even more choice than we do. I do know quite a few LLM students here - it's true that there aren't too many - perhaps 40 at any one time. Still, they have all been happy as far as I can tell.

If you weren't to choose Bond, I would choose UQ over La Trobe. While Melbourne is a rocking city, better than Brisbane in my opinion, La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities of Australia - the G8 outlined have a better reputation within and, I would expect, without Australia. I find it hard to believe that La Trobe's name has made it too far. On the other hand, most people seem to have heard of Bond (probably because of the large number of international students here, who go home and spread the word!) and UQ because it is established and they have excellent international mooters.

if you need any further info just let me know!
quote
Hey me_incarnate,

I understand that you are proud of "your" (BOND) university but this should not lead to tainted advice you give to potential students.

When you say "La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities of Australia" this is simply not true.

La Trobe is usually ranked around the top ten in Australia (see for instance http://www.australian-universities.com/rankings/).

Further, La Trobe was ranked within the top 100 of the world leading universities by the well respected "Times Higher Education Ranking 2005" (see http://www.ifs.tuwien.ac.at/~silvia/research-tips/times_world_ranking_2005.pdf).

Bond does not even make it into any of those rankings.

With all respect, you can not seriously suggest that La Trobe is not well respected and in the same breath suggest that someone should start studying at Bond because "most people seem to have heard of Bond".
Hey me_incarnate,

I understand that you are proud of "your" (BOND) university but this should not lead to tainted advice you give to potential students.

When you say "La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities of Australia" this is simply not true.

La Trobe is usually ranked around the top ten in Australia (see for instance http://www.australian-universities.com/rankings/).

Further, La Trobe was ranked within the top 100 of the world leading universities by the well respected "Times Higher Education Ranking 2005" (see http://www.ifs.tuwien.ac.at/~silvia/research-tips/times_world_ranking_2005.pdf).

Bond does not even make it into any of those rankings.

With all respect, you can not seriously suggest that La Trobe is not well respected and in the same breath suggest that someone should start studying at Bond because "most people seem to have heard of Bond".

quote
Hi LLM-Lawyer

Those are definitely fair comments and, although my comments towards Bond reflect my genuine opinion, I can understand that they may have been biased. I stand by my comments regarding the quality of law studies there, as I feel I am qualified to make them.

Admittedly, I was too hasty in making my remarks regarding reputation overseas; in fact, on exchange in Europe, the only Australian universities anyone knew was ANU, USyd, UNSW and UniMelb. This may be different among practicing professionals, I don't know.

Regarding La Trobe, from the sites that you sent me, it seems to rank 12th in 2007, 25th in 2006, 18th in 2005, 15th in 2005 (teaching performance) and 14th in 2004 out of usually 40-odd universities. Bond is never ranked in these rankings because it does not fulfill the requirements for entry (something related to it being a private university, I think?). I daresay it would perform abysmally in the research criteria, but well in others, and cannot begin to guess where it would stand overall.

In saying that La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities in Australia, I mean that it would not be regarded as one of the best universities, which, in my opinion, is true. I apologise if it sounded otherwise. I actually put very little emphasis on university rankings: to me, it usually does not reflect the quality of the education or experience, nor does it reflect the quality of legal studies at the schools.

I would accept that La Trobe has an excellent Law School without reserve. However, I based my comment off of what I know - that Bond and UQ have excellent Law Schools, whereas the comments I have heard regarding La Trobe are less favourable.

If this is tainted advice, then I'm not really sure what response I was meant to give. Nevertheless, I apologise for any misunderstanding.
Hi LLM-Lawyer

Those are definitely fair comments and, although my comments towards Bond reflect my genuine opinion, I can understand that they may have been biased. I stand by my comments regarding the quality of law studies there, as I feel I am qualified to make them.

Admittedly, I was too hasty in making my remarks regarding reputation overseas; in fact, on exchange in Europe, the only Australian universities anyone knew was ANU, USyd, UNSW and UniMelb. This may be different among practicing professionals, I don't know.

Regarding La Trobe, from the sites that you sent me, it seems to rank 12th in 2007, 25th in 2006, 18th in 2005, 15th in 2005 (teaching performance) and 14th in 2004 out of usually 40-odd universities. Bond is never ranked in these rankings because it does not fulfill the requirements for entry (something related to it being a private university, I think?). I daresay it would perform abysmally in the research criteria, but well in others, and cannot begin to guess where it would stand overall.

In saying that La Trobe is regarded as one of the lesser universities in Australia, I mean that it would not be regarded as one of the best universities, which, in my opinion, is true. I apologise if it sounded otherwise. I actually put very little emphasis on university rankings: to me, it usually does not reflect the quality of the education or experience, nor does it reflect the quality of legal studies at the schools.

I would accept that La Trobe has an excellent Law School without reserve. However, I based my comment off of what I know - that Bond and UQ have excellent Law Schools, whereas the comments I have heard regarding La Trobe are less favourable.

If this is tainted advice, then I'm not really sure what response I was meant to give. Nevertheless, I apologise for any misunderstanding.
quote
One way to ascertain perceived law school ranking is to see which schools top tier law firms hire from. Note, I used the words 'one way' and 'perceived'.

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/articles/A-matter-of-degree_z74278.htm

From the cursory survey above, Monash Uni comes out on top, followed by USyd, UNSW, UMelb, then UTS and others. Keep in mind though ANU is a very highly ranked Australian university (the top Aus uni in the latest THES ranking I believe) but it's location may affect its law students' access to major law firms in Melb and Syd, although it is understood that most of its students go into academia or government posts (its location being at the nation's capital).
One way to ascertain perceived law school ranking is to see which schools top tier law firms hire from. Note, I used the words 'one way' and 'perceived'.

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/articles/A-matter-of-degree_z74278.htm

From the cursory survey above, Monash Uni comes out on top, followed by USyd, UNSW, UMelb, then UTS and others. Keep in mind though ANU is a very highly ranked Australian university (the top Aus uni in the latest THES ranking I believe) but it's location may affect its law students' access to major law firms in Melb and Syd, although it is understood that most of its students go into academia or government posts (its location being at the nation's capital).
quote
hey guys.. can any one suggest whether i should apply for oct 2008 intake or jan 2009..my final year LL.B results wud b out by sep 08. Please help..
hey guys.. can any one suggest whether i should apply for oct 2008 intake or jan 2009..my final year LL.B results wud b out by sep 08. Please help..
quote
d.khanna9
hii
I am a law student from India . Iwould complete my LLB in next year time .and am interseted to pursue my LLM from Australia mainly from sydney. However I hv certain doubts!!!
1) whether I would be able to get admission for LLM in Austalia directly or i need to do certain subjects before being elligible for a LLM degree there.
2) keeping job prospect in mind which field would u suggest to go for . iI am inclined towards Intenational Law or IPR
what u say !!1
waiting for ur reply !!1
hii
I am a law student from India . Iwould complete my LLB in next year time .and am interseted to pursue my LLM from Australia mainly from sydney. However I hv certain doubts!!!
1) whether I would be able to get admission for LLM in Austalia directly or i need to do certain subjects before being elligible for a LLM degree there.
2) keeping job prospect in mind which field would u suggest to go for . iI am inclined towards Intenational Law or IPR
what u say !!1
waiting for ur reply !!1
quote
librannancy123

I think you would be fine to apply for October, they will give you entry to the program conditional upon maintaining your average grades..


d.khanna,

I think you would be able to gain admission directly to an LLM program at a university in Sydney - perhaps not at the University of Sydney (unless you have an excellent LLB), but there are a number of LLMs with more lenient entry requirements - University of New South Wales (UNSW), University of Technology, Sydney (UTS), Macquarie University and University of Western Sydney (UWS), for example. If you couldn't gain admission directly, it would be a matter of getting work experience (rather than doing subjects) which would probably help the most.

Regarding job prospects, i suppose it depends on whether you intend to stay in Australia or not. International Law (especially) and IPR are both quite difficult when it comes to finding jobs - in Syndey, Corporate/Commercial, Banking and Finance or perhaps Dispute Resolution might be a safer choice. However, these specialisations don't travel as well as International Law so it really depends on what you want to do after the degree.

You might consider some specialisation in international law ie international finance law, asian law, international business law etc? I would suggest to go with your passions.
librannancy123

I think you would be fine to apply for October, they will give you entry to the program conditional upon maintaining your average grades..


d.khanna,

I think you would be able to gain admission directly to an LLM program at a university in Sydney - perhaps not at the University of Sydney (unless you have an excellent LLB), but there are a number of LLMs with more lenient entry requirements - University of New South Wales (UNSW), University of Technology, Sydney (UTS), Macquarie University and University of Western Sydney (UWS), for example. If you couldn't gain admission directly, it would be a matter of getting work experience (rather than doing subjects) which would probably help the most.

Regarding job prospects, i suppose it depends on whether you intend to stay in Australia or not. International Law (especially) and IPR are both quite difficult when it comes to finding jobs - in Syndey, Corporate/Commercial, Banking and Finance or perhaps Dispute Resolution might be a safer choice. However, these specialisations don't travel as well as International Law so it really depends on what you want to do after the degree.

You might consider some specialisation in international law ie international finance law, asian law, international business law etc? I would suggest to go with your passions.
quote
AudreyRon
I have always achieved exceptional academic results, consistently ranked in the top one percent of every academic jurisdiction in which I have competed. With unlimited choice in where I pursued my law degree, I chose La Trobe University. The law program is prestigious and especially prized in terms of clincial legal education, programs like their judge's mentoring schemes and mooting competitions. In all these areas they excel on an international basis. If La Trobe will accept you, thank your lucky stars. It's simply the best.
I have always achieved exceptional academic results, consistently ranked in the top one percent of every academic jurisdiction in which I have competed. With unlimited choice in where I pursued my law degree, I chose La Trobe University. The law program is prestigious and especially prized in terms of clincial legal education, programs like their judge's mentoring schemes and mooting competitions. In all these areas they excel on an international basis. If La Trobe will accept you, thank your lucky stars. It's simply the best.
quote

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