Hello guys, I've just graduated law and I'm seriously interested in applying for a LLM in the UK in order to persue career abroad for at least few years. I know it's a common question, but do you think that completing a LLM will improve my chances to do that? I wll be happy to hear about your experience as it's an important decision to take.
Dilemma
Posted Jul 23, 2010 12:38
0
Hello guys, I've just graduated law and I'm seriously interested in applying for a LLM in the UK in order to persue career abroad for at least few years. I know it's a common question, but do you think that completing a LLM will improve my chances to do that? I wll be happy to hear about your experience as it's an important decision to take.
Posted Jul 24, 2010 04:22
0
Where are you from? This is certainly one of the first things anyone will have to look into before giving you any idea about enhancements an LLM could bring along
Just so you know, Im from Brazil. The people I know of whove worked their way through the several obstacles along the way and found paid positions in law firms abroad either had LLMs (plus 2 to 3 years in local law firms with connections abroad) or 7 to 10 years of work experience after graduation in local law firms with connections abroad (and no LLM) to back them up... so, at first my answer would be: yes, the LLM can help you get into the market but, unfortunately, its not a job guarantee so theres a big chance youll have to pack up and head back home after one year the most recently UCL LLM graduate I know came back home empty handed after the LLM and he had the three-year work experience in a local law firm with links abroad to help him out and that wasnt enough so ultimately shit happens and were all subject to getting hit in the face with it
And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
Where are you from? This is certainly one of the first things anyone will have to look into before giving you any idea about enhancements an LLM could bring along
Just so you know, Im from Brazil. The people I know of whove worked their way through the several obstacles along the way and found paid positions in law firms abroad either had LLMs (plus 2 to 3 years in local law firms with connections abroad) or 7 to 10 years of work experience after graduation in local law firms with connections abroad (and no LLM) to back them up... so, at first my answer would be: yes, the LLM can help you get into the market but, unfortunately, its not a job guarantee so theres a big chance youll have to pack up and head back home after one year the most recently UCL LLM graduate I know came back home empty handed after the LLM and he had the three-year work experience in a local law firm with links abroad to help him out and that wasnt enough so ultimately shit happens and were all subject to getting hit in the face with it
And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
Just so you know, Im from Brazil. The people I know of whove worked their way through the several obstacles along the way and found paid positions in law firms abroad either had LLMs (plus 2 to 3 years in local law firms with connections abroad) or 7 to 10 years of work experience after graduation in local law firms with connections abroad (and no LLM) to back them up... so, at first my answer would be: yes, the LLM can help you get into the market but, unfortunately, its not a job guarantee so theres a big chance youll have to pack up and head back home after one year the most recently UCL LLM graduate I know came back home empty handed after the LLM and he had the three-year work experience in a local law firm with links abroad to help him out and that wasnt enough so ultimately shit happens and were all subject to getting hit in the face with it
And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
Inactive User
Posted Jul 24, 2010 16:30
0
And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).
<blockquote>And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
</blockquote>
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).
</blockquote>
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).
Posted Jul 25, 2010 12:50
0
Thanks for the info guys. I forgot to mention I'm Bulgarian and actually am more interested in practising here in Europe. I've just graduated and actually my experience consists mostly of internships during the summer and being an Erasmus student abroad. I will start working here in september and will have about an year of practise when I'm applying. I was also hoping that more people with the same plans and some that have already completed their LLMs will write in this topic.
Cheers :)
Thanks for the info guys. I forgot to mention I'm Bulgarian and actually am more interested in practising here in Europe. I've just graduated and actually my experience consists mostly of internships during the summer and being an Erasmus student abroad. I will start working here in september and will have about an year of practise when I'm applying. I was also hoping that more people with the same plans and some that have already completed their LLMs will write in this topic.
Cheers :)
Cheers :)
Posted Jul 25, 2010 20:43
0
And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).
Just so that we're all on the same page, NYC is right about the bar requirements. If you do plan on taking the bar exam and actually being able to practice in NY or any other State in the US, you'll need to get your LLM in the US (if you're not from a common law jurisdiction). But my main point is that even if you're only thinking of getting a job in some "international" desk at US law firms (for example, if I were to get a position in the Brazilian desk somewhere), as far as I know US law firms do tend to hire US LLM graduates (even if they've come from good, but not outstanding universities) in lieu of UK LLM graduates... I've seen it happen before... more than once, unfortunately... but, to be fair, I've also seen UK graduates get jobs in the US... so it's not as if it's something impossible...
<blockquote><blockquote>And if you plan to head to the USA after the LLM, I'd advise you to get your LLM there... at least from a Brazilian perspective, they don't seem to like UK graduates... if you got your LLM at Oxbridge, they might not be so closed off, but I'm sure they'd rather get a bloke from Duke or NYU...
</blockquote>
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).</blockquote>
Just so that we're all on the same page, NYC is right about the bar requirements. If you do plan on taking the bar exam and actually being able to practice in NY or any other State in the US, you'll need to get your LLM in the US (if you're not from a common law jurisdiction). But my main point is that even if you're only thinking of getting a job in some "international" desk at US law firms (for example, if I were to get a position in the Brazilian desk somewhere), as far as I know US law firms do tend to hire US LLM graduates (even if they've come from good, but not outstanding universities) in lieu of UK LLM graduates... I've seen it happen before... more than once, unfortunately... but, to be fair, I've also seen UK graduates get jobs in the US... so it's not as if it's something impossible...
</blockquote>
Just to put this into context, this isn't so much parochialism among the American law firms, but requirements to be admitted to the bar. While a few states (notably New York, California, and Massachusetts) are more lenient when it comes to foreign attorneys, the vast majority of states require you to have a JD from an American law school in order to even take the bar exam. New York (which I am most familiar with) will let you take the bar exam if (a) you have a law degree from a common law jurisdiction or (b) you have something on the order of 24 credits from an American law school (basically, you have done an LLM in the US). So, yeah, if you want to try for a job in the US and your first degree was not from a common law jurisdiction, you will need to do the LLM in the US. Of course, the American legal market is absolutely abysmal right now, so pretty much no one should expect to get a job with an American firm, no matter what your qualifications are. Seriously - you could be an Oxford law grad with an LLM from Harvard and you still probably wouldn't get a job with a New York law firm these days. It might get better in a few years, but that's where we are now... (Of course, if you were already licensed in your home jurisdiction, things do change slightly, as some of the more internationally focused firms may be more willing to hire you to bulk up their ability to practice in your home jurisdiction).</blockquote>
Just so that we're all on the same page, NYC is right about the bar requirements. If you do plan on taking the bar exam and actually being able to practice in NY or any other State in the US, you'll need to get your LLM in the US (if you're not from a common law jurisdiction). But my main point is that even if you're only thinking of getting a job in some "international" desk at US law firms (for example, if I were to get a position in the Brazilian desk somewhere), as far as I know US law firms do tend to hire US LLM graduates (even if they've come from good, but not outstanding universities) in lieu of UK LLM graduates... I've seen it happen before... more than once, unfortunately... but, to be fair, I've also seen UK graduates get jobs in the US... so it's not as if it's something impossible...
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