Geneva - MIDS


Hi Bookcrazy --

Congratulations on your acceptance. I'm curious why MIDS students should not expect to find work in jurisdictions in which they are not admitted to practice. It would seem that one of the soft advantages of a career in int'l arbitration/adr is that practitioners do not require state-based licenses to work in this forum.

I do not doubt your conclusion in the least -- it just seems that I'm missing a very important piece of the puzzle. Could you please elaborate a little bit?

Thanks very much!
Hi Bookcrazy --

Congratulations on your acceptance. I'm curious why MIDS students should not expect to find work in jurisdictions in which they are not admitted to practice. It would seem that one of the soft advantages of a career in int'l arbitration/adr is that practitioners do not require state-based licenses to work in this forum.

I do not doubt your conclusion in the least -- it just seems that I'm missing a very important piece of the puzzle. Could you please elaborate a little bit?

Thanks very much!
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bookcrazy
My conclusions are based on my reading of the response various friends of mine have got in the last 3 years. I must clarify that my conclusions hold good for India qualified lawyers and may not be true for many others in whose local jurisdictions, international firms have their offices.

The thing is there is yet to develop an international arbitration practice groups dedicatedly working exclusively in that field. They are still parts of the larger 'Dispute Resolution' umbrella which includes litigation. It is always better for me to hire an associate who can do litigation, domeatic, and international arbitrations. Therefore, firms are not very enthusiastic about taking even very good Indian lawyers for a general practice but only for the India group.

This is my experience with UK and US based on what I have seen happening for the last few years.
My conclusions are based on my reading of the response various friends of mine have got in the last 3 years. I must clarify that my conclusions hold good for India qualified lawyers and may not be true for many others in whose local jurisdictions, international firms have their offices.

The thing is there is yet to develop an international arbitration practice groups dedicatedly working exclusively in that field. They are still parts of the larger 'Dispute Resolution' umbrella which includes litigation. It is always better for me to hire an associate who can do litigation, domeatic, and international arbitrations. Therefore, firms are not very enthusiastic about taking even very good Indian lawyers for a general practice but only for the India group.

This is my experience with UK and US based on what I have seen happening for the last few years.
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Thanks, bookcrazy, that is helpful.
Thanks, bookcrazy, that is helpful.
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tanay0903
Hey, I have finally decided to joining the MIDS program! Prospective classmates please contact me on tanay0903@gmail.com!
Hey, I have finally decided to joining the MIDS program! Prospective classmates please contact me on tanay0903@gmail.com!
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bookcrazy
I am joining MIDS too. Can we have a group mailing or something similar. Not facebook though. email - admin@theksr.com
I am joining MIDS too. Can we have a group mailing or something similar. Not facebook though. email - admin@theksr.com
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Maria84
Hello everyone, I am also joining the 2010-2011 MIDS program. Can anyone share their experience? How intensive is the program, and how much interaction does one have with the eminent academics and practitioners that give the intesive courses?

Also I am finding it a little difficult to find accomodation so any tips are very welcome!

Looking forward to seeing future classmates in Geneva!

Best,

M
Hello everyone, I am also joining the 2010-2011 MIDS program. Can anyone share their experience? How intensive is the program, and how much interaction does one have with the eminent academics and practitioners that give the intesive courses?

Also I am finding it a little difficult to find accomodation so any tips are very welcome!

Looking forward to seeing future classmates in Geneva!

Best,

M
quote
Hi,

Congrats -- we're pooling some info at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=372633414346. Best of luck!

- B
Hi,

Congrats -- we're pooling some info at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=372633414346. Best of luck!

- B
quote
It seems there has been quite a number of persons who joined the 2010/2011 class. Can I please ask you to tell us what do you think about the program now and in particular:

1 Are intensive courses really useful. They are taught by true stars in the respective fields, but only run for 3 days. Does this look like a true course where you can get to know the professor and communicate with him/her or a series of guest lectures?

2. How advanced are the general courses? I have experience working with both arbitration and other pil disputes procedures so I would not want too much time being spent on the basics. Do the courses taught presume certain level of knowledge of the students?

3. Are tutorials helpful and how are they organized?

4. Is the CHF 15000 estimate for living expenses for the duration of the course provided by MIDs realistic. From my experience Geneva is a very expensive place so this figure looks really low?

5. Does MIDS help with finding accommodation? Again as far as I know regular accomodation in Geneva is expensive and hard to find. Are there any residence halls etc and if so what is the monthly rent and utilities/facilities for each room?

Thank you very much in advance!
It seems there has been quite a number of persons who joined the 2010/2011 class. Can I please ask you to tell us what do you think about the program now and in particular:

1 Are intensive courses really useful. They are taught by true stars in the respective fields, but only run for 3 days. Does this look like a true course where you can get to know the professor and communicate with him/her or a series of guest lectures?

2. How advanced are the general courses? I have experience working with both arbitration and other pil disputes procedures so I would not want too much time being spent on the basics. Do the courses taught presume certain level of knowledge of the students?

3. Are tutorials helpful and how are they organized?

4. Is the CHF 15000 estimate for living expenses for the duration of the course provided by MIDs realistic. From my experience Geneva is a very expensive place so this figure looks really low?

5. Does MIDS help with finding accommodation? Again as far as I know regular accomodation in Geneva is expensive and hard to find. Are there any residence halls etc and if so what is the monthly rent and utilities/facilities for each room?

Thank you very much in advance!
quote
Hi Fan,

Thanks for the opportunity/reminder to chime in on the Board. By this point in the year, I'm fairly convinced that MIDS is among the best decisions I've ever made. Hope I can help you out:

1) If you really think about what it's like to sit with a small group in a small room for 9 hours with an engaging professor, you must agree that there is a lot of interaction. These are not guest lectures where you are expected to sit quietly. This is an exchange of ideas. These visiting professors expect as much and would have a lot less fun if that weren't the case. This has at least been the case with Tercier, Schultz, Rigozzi and Marceau. I didn't take Jacquet's course because my French isn't up to snuff, and the others are still to come (Shapiro on Monday :).

2) If you have experience working in say, commercial arbitration, then you will likely find some aspects of those sessions redundant. Honestly, if you are weighing this program against other arbitration LLMs, I think you need to ask yourself what you'd like to do with the year and ultimately with the degree. If you practice commercial arbitration now and are glued to the field, I'm not sure that this program is for you. Not because it doesn't have a fairly comprehensive take on commercial arbitration. But because the program is designed especially for people who want a more flexible and holistic approach to international law.

However, if you are interested in sovereignty issues or development and thus want to branch into investment arbitration -- or by the same logic, trade and public dispute settlement -- then this is an absolutely wonderful program. And when we do commercial arbitration, you will of course benefit from new insights from Kaufmann-Kohler, and the class will in turn benefit from your contribution of what you've learned in practice. Great atmosphere in class.

3) The weekly Tutorials are the most helpful part of the course. I find the combined reading load in MIDS to be a little ridiculous at times. Students struggle to get through it all. The weekly General Course is only 4 hours and covers a lot of ground, so the point is that the Tutorials are an essential part of MIDS because they are where students have an opportunity to make sure they've truly digested the concepts presented a day or two prior.

The simple organization is that the full MIDS group (currently 37 students, I believe) is divided into 3 sub-groups. Each sub-group has its own 2-hour weekly Tutorial with a faculty assistant that corresponds to the type of material covered in that week's General Course. There are two faculty assistants in the program -- one handles pure private and investment material, the other handles pure public and trade material. They are both exceptionally helpful, and the latter -- Makane Mbengue -- is in his own right one of the most natural teachers I've ever seen.

4 & 5) MIDS keeps a list of residence halls in Geneva. The best advice is to seek this out and apply NOW for a spot in one of these halls, even if you haven't received an acceptance from MIDS and aren't convinced you'd go anyway. Residence halls are probably the only reason that the CHF 15000 estimate is legitimate. Rent will vary among the halls but it's all within reason. If you do not secure a place in a residence hall, you will likely have to come to Geneva early with a very fat wallet or move to France. Everything you've heard is true.

Hope that helped -- all the best with your decisions.
Hi Fan,

Thanks for the opportunity/reminder to chime in on the Board. By this point in the year, I'm fairly convinced that MIDS is among the best decisions I've ever made. Hope I can help you out:

1) If you really think about what it's like to sit with a small group in a small room for 9 hours with an engaging professor, you must agree that there is a lot of interaction. These are not guest lectures where you are expected to sit quietly. This is an exchange of ideas. These visiting professors expect as much and would have a lot less fun if that weren't the case. This has at least been the case with Tercier, Schultz, Rigozzi and Marceau. I didn't take Jacquet's course because my French isn't up to snuff, and the others are still to come (Shapiro on Monday :).

2) If you have experience working in say, commercial arbitration, then you will likely find some aspects of those sessions redundant. Honestly, if you are weighing this program against other arbitration LLMs, I think you need to ask yourself what you'd like to do with the year and ultimately with the degree. If you practice commercial arbitration now and are glued to the field, I'm not sure that this program is for you. Not because it doesn't have a fairly comprehensive take on commercial arbitration. But because the program is designed especially for people who want a more flexible and holistic approach to international law.

However, if you are interested in sovereignty issues or development and thus want to branch into investment arbitration -- or by the same logic, trade and public dispute settlement -- then this is an absolutely wonderful program. And when we do commercial arbitration, you will of course benefit from new insights from Kaufmann-Kohler, and the class will in turn benefit from your contribution of what you've learned in practice. Great atmosphere in class.

3) The weekly Tutorials are the most helpful part of the course. I find the combined reading load in MIDS to be a little ridiculous at times. Students struggle to get through it all. The weekly General Course is only 4 hours and covers a lot of ground, so the point is that the Tutorials are an essential part of MIDS because they are where students have an opportunity to make sure they've truly digested the concepts presented a day or two prior.

The simple organization is that the full MIDS group (currently 37 students, I believe) is divided into 3 sub-groups. Each sub-group has its own 2-hour weekly Tutorial with a faculty assistant that corresponds to the type of material covered in that week's General Course. There are two faculty assistants in the program -- one handles pure private and investment material, the other handles pure public and trade material. They are both exceptionally helpful, and the latter -- Makane Mbengue -- is in his own right one of the most natural teachers I've ever seen.

4 & 5) MIDS keeps a list of residence halls in Geneva. The best advice is to seek this out and apply NOW for a spot in one of these halls, even if you haven't received an acceptance from MIDS and aren't convinced you'd go anyway. Residence halls are probably the only reason that the CHF 15000 estimate is legitimate. Rent will vary among the halls but it's all within reason. If you do not secure a place in a residence hall, you will likely have to come to Geneva early with a very fat wallet or move to France. Everything you've heard is true.

Hope that helped -- all the best with your decisions.
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