I am thinking of applying for the Central European University's (Budapest, Hungary) International Business Law program for 2011/12 and would have some questions:

Does anyone have any experience with this school or has even maybe attended this program?

How is its international reputation?

I understand that most of its students are from Central and Eastern Europe but is it also suitable for someone from Western Europe?

Are the admission tests hard to pass?

How is the quality of education?

A lot of questions here, maybe someone has some answers too... :-)

Thanks in advance!

Hi,

If you are from Western Europe, most probably you won't get a fellowship. The Program itself is good but I would not recommend to pay tuition from your own pocket, especially if you want to seat for a bar exam in your country (CEU credits won't count for that). They also advertise a possibility to take an American bar exam, that's also not true, CEU Legal Studies is not accredited with the ABA, state bar associations refuse to grant permission to seat for a bar exam without additional credits from an American law school.

Admission tests are not that hard but take time to practice for LSAT.

Dear Rechtsanwalt,

Thanks for your reply!

Do I understand correctly that
1) you are from a German speaking country (which would be particularly interesting since I am from Austria) and
2) you have attended the programme?

My concerns are not so much the bar exam either in Austria (which I have already passed) or in the US (which I do not intend to take) but whether the money and time invested in such post-graduate would be worth it in terms of boosting my knowledge, experience, standing and, in the end, my career. From your experience, would this be worth it? Of course I am aware of the fact that this is not a Columbia or NYU LLM but due to family and financial reasons I would not like to go so far away from home.

Thanks!

Dear Goldeneye,

Nope, I'm not from a German-speaking country, but I do speak some German, that explains my nick :) I'll continue in EN, other people might have questions similar to yours.

And yes, I've attended the program a few yrs ago. I understand your concerns. It's difficult to answer just yes or no. I'd say it still depends on what you do in Austria and how you wanna boost your knowledge and career. If in your legal practice you dwell on Central and Eastern Europe, the standing/reputation of the program might be helpful. Otherwise, not really. To graduate, you'll need 24 CEU credits which basically means that you'll need to take more than 20 courses in 10 months. Majority of classes last for two weeks, you can imagine that it is impossible to dwell on the subject in such a short time period. Some classes are really cool, taught by true experts in the field (Arbitration, Competition Law, Comparative Law of Sales, WTO, Accounting for Lawyers), but majority of other courses are not that instructive, they simply cover basics or bullshit, eventually people study for the sake of final exams and credits, rather than knowledge. I agree with you that it is understandable that CEU is not Columbia, NYU or Fordham, but I'd say the CEU IBL Program needs drastic changes. I used to have a partial CEU fellowship which covered my tuition and some living expenses, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't invest my own money.

Don't want to disappoint you, but it's my answer. I'd be glad to give more details if you like.

MfG
Rechtsanwalt

Dear Rechtsanwalt,

Thanks again for your detailed answer. May I follow up:

Isn't it that one can chose of a variety of classes and does not have to take all of them? This way one could at least partially avoid taking the "bullshit" classes and concentrate on the good ones.

I am particularly interested in arbitration which is the field I have been working in and am planning to continue with it. I understand from your post that this is taught in a very good manner at the CEU.

As to the changes needed, do you have the overview whether the classes are still similar to those when you attended them?

As for the tuition fees: Yes, I certainly do hope to get at least some partial fee waiver but we'll see. In my calculation, though, I also include the costs of living which would make up much less in Budapest than in the UK or the US.

Best,

eye

Dear Goldeneye,

Of course, you can chose classes. The problem is you won't be able to pick up classes to cover the minimum credit requirements. International Commercial Arbitration is a 3 credit course (the only IBL course comprising 3 credits), Evidence in Arbitration - 1 credit. Willem C. Vis Moot Court - 1 credit (note that CEU teams never managed to score high in the moot). You will have to take other classes whether you like them or not. As an option, you can take classes from other two streams (CCL and HR), they do have good courses in international public law etc., but it might be problematic in view of the overlapping class schedule. To take classes from other departments (cross-listed courses), you will need a special permission from the IBL Chair (the guy will be your thesis supervisor if you gonna do arbitration) which might be a problem (why you need it etc.) plus, normally, they allow only one cross-listed class and reduce the number of credits granted by external departments. In other words, it'll be impossible to completely avoid taking shitty courses.

Majority of classes in IBL are still the same. They introduced a few new classes, but judging from the names of course instructors (who trained me), I'm ready to bet that not all of them will be very good.

Just a small note I could not refrain from making (in regard to the accuracy of the information Rechtsanwalt is providing). He has stated that "CEU teams never managed to score high in the moot". This could have been the status quo of his generation, yet, not anymore. The CEU Team advanced to the Moot finals in 2009 (16th Moot, see the results here: http://www.cisg.law.pace.edu/cisg/moot/awards16.html, finishing the competition 44th out of 228 teams) and received an honorable mention for the Respondent's Memorandum in 2010 (17th Moot, see the results here: http://www.cisg.law.pace.edu/cisg/moot/awards17.html), which, at least IMHO, is quite an achievement (or, sorry a "high achievement") for the European team from the school with a very intensive LL.M program otherwise. In addition to this, the team annually participates in a number of international pre-moots, including the ICC Pre-Moot and Leuven Pre-Moot, among others, and is hosting a pre-Moot in CEU ("Hungarian Pre-Moot") - an event quite well attended internationally - since 2009 (http://web.ceu.hu/legal/moot_pre.htm). As the "veteran" of the CEU "Arbitration school" myself, I should assure you it is worth an effort.

Dear LadyL,

Thank you for this valuable information. I take it that unlike Rechtsanwalt you have a quite positive opinion on this LLM programme. (Or did you mean that only the arbitration classes are worth the effort?) Could you elaborate a bit on this in detail? How far do you agree with Rechtsanwalt's reservations concerning the quality of education and the cost-benefit ratio? Does it make sense, in your view, for a person from Western Europe (Austria) to attend this programme? How good are his chances to be admitted and/or for an (at least partial) scholarship/tuition fee waiver?

Best,

Eye