Law teaching at the Yale Law School

tmalmine, Sep 09, 2007 20:40

Dear Lit,

I was mostly a scholar before embarking on my LL.M. studies and hence no adjustments were necessary.

Lit, Jul 25, 2007 14:53

Hi Toni, I think you might have worked before deciding to pursue you LLM, right? And if I remember correctly you're at Yale with your fiancee?
1)How did you find the financial adjustment, from being a (presumably) well-paid attorney to being a (presumably again) hand-to-mouth student?
2) The mental adjustment, to thinking academically again instead of mostly pragmatically? Assuming there was an adjustment at all?

tmalmine, Jun 26, 2007 13:49

Mural,

you can send me a personal message, my address is firstname.malminen@yale.edu

mural, Jun 20, 2007 10:16

also what are odds of getting funding for the llm at yale?

mural, Jun 20, 2007 10:16

Hi Toni, many thanks for your response. i have a non-law degree from oxford and gave my exams for the law conversion course recently in uk. could you please ask your oxbridge friend what level of marks are required to get in to Yale ok-ish? also if he/she has some knowledge of what level of marks may be required for the law conversion it would help me a lot. i know i will only know by submitting my application but still if you might be ok with my having your email addy so i can discuss my options with you in further detail. i am not too comfortable with public platforms such as this one. thanks a million!

tmalmine, Jun 01, 2007 01:33

Paavo: olen hakenut oikeushistorian ja roomalaisen oikeuden assistentin virkaa, mutta päätöstä ei ole vielä tehty (tai ainakaan annettu tiedoksi).

En ihmettele, että suunnittelet paluuta Suomeen, minulla ainakin on koti-ikävä.

Mural: my classmate with an Oxbridge pedigree told me that you still need good grades, even though having gone to these universities is a merit. The admissions committee, however, makes an overall assessment of each applicant, so we suggest you apply in any case.

If you have no formal teaching experience, you might try to volunteer to teach. And publications count, for sure, even if they have not been published in "top" periodicals.

Best,

Toni

mural, May 26, 2007 16:57

Hi Toni,
Just wanted to confirm how important grades are for the Yale LLM if one has a degree from Oxford or Cambridge but not necessarily top marks in the degree or rank in class? Also will certificate courses in law from other top schools help with admission? Finally, what kind of demonstrated interest in law teaching or research can you suggest that might impress selectors if one doesnt have formal law teaching experience? thanks a ton :)

pkotiaho, May 24, 2007 21:20

Dear Toni,

First things first: thank you for the enlightening blog. It is inspiring to read of the experiences of such a distinguished countryman. In fact, reading your blog has helped me in my decision to return to Finland to pursue the University of Helsinki's LL.M. diploma next year. So my question to you is, and I do apologise that it has nothing to do with Yale, are you teaching in Helsinki next year? Best of luck towards the finals,

Paavo Kotiaho

tmalmine, May 01, 2007 03:53

Dear Fernando,

Nice to hear from you. Here are the rules:

1) most opt for 12-16 credits. Courses vary. I took two single-credit courses in the fall. On the other hand, torts was four credits. All in all I took 6 courses in the fall (one was a reading group) and five in the spring. This is bit more than average, I suppose. Most student have four courses per term.

2) If you take more than 16 credits per term, you need a permission. I do not suggest overload, most students have hard time keeping with the coursework for 12 credits.

3) See 1.

4) It is not mandatory. I did some independent research and many students did, but it's completely voluntary.

6) It's the maximum.

Take care,

Toni

fernando munoz, Apr 30, 2007 02:06

Dear Tony: I have some questions for you. The issue is the number of courses per term is possible to take at LLM in Yale.

1) How many courses do the average student take each term?
2) How many courses are considered to be too much?
3) How many courses did you take on each term?
4) Is it necessary to take units of independent research and writing for credit? Did you have to take them?
5) Is the 6 units of independent research a limit or a minimum?

Thanks for your help!

tmalmine, Mar 25, 2007 13:58

Hi Roscoe (it's a great nickname for someone going to study at HLS, by the way. Have you seen a picture with Professor Pound sitting behind his enormous round table he had in his office? That's what you should aspire for:)

One reason I like Ellickson is that he doesn't try to intimidate students; if someone can't answer, he just asks someone else, instead of embarassing the student. So I agree with you: Socratic method can be used very efficiently, too, it depends on your attitude.

Some criteria for choosing courses:

The teacher: this is the most common criterion. You will take Duncan, no doubt. I was certain in advance that I would take Langbein and Klarman (and Whitman had he not been on leave).

The topic: I took Hobbes and Spinoza, because it sounded fun and Kronman had a good reputation. This is rather straighforward criterion. If there is a seminar that is directly related to your research interests, it will probably be a good choice.

Other students' comments: during the shopping period, one should discuss with other students, see what courses they're taking and whether they like them or not. This is very good way to gather information.

Fun: well, it's academic fun, but one should take something "weird" or extraordinary. Many students in our program elected The Book of Job. Now they're reading the Good Book, some for the first time, and discussing its politico-legal dimensions. It sounds like a lot of fun and everyone really digs the course.

My feeling is that LL.Ms usually get well along. Because students come from all over the world, there is not so much competition (many are going back aftewr their LL.M.). People who have similar interests, take the same courses. That's where you meet people with whom you can share your thoughts with.

Just one anecdote I heard from a guy who did his LL.M. at HLS last year. In the very first day someone introduced himself by saying "I'm Mr X, and I am so talented, tell me one good reason why I should get to know you". What a prick. And guess what: he was German. But at the end of the day he was a nice guy, too. So don't worry: everyone gets along fine and you will meet lots of interesting and nice people in Cambridge.

I'm looking forward to hearing more from your study plans etc.

Best,

Toni

roscoe, Mar 25, 2007 03:06

first of all: glad 'our' Toni is back! we the fans sure missed his post. as for the socratic method: I never really got the aversion most obviously have with it. I tried it here in Germany in my classes with freshmen (and women) and the results are amazing. I especially have always been disappointed with One L and his, pardon me, sometimes whining author who seemed to go on and on about a method that he seemed to take way too seriously - to say the least. then, on the other hand, I always dug the critique of Duncan Kennedy and others who mocked the terror and horror side of the whole thing, and surely it is very differend for the JDs who face life-changing experiences there. Anyhow, I shouldn't talk about something I have yet to experience on full scale. Just a little apology of the socratic method (wow, that's one intellectual pun there, innit?).

Keep up the good work, Toni, and: perhaps you could add some information for all of us on how to pick the courses and what measures you and the others tend to use in picking them. Also, how is the atmosphere among the ll.m.s? Is it easy to make friends, scholar-soulmates (you know what I mean...), do you guys discuss jurisprudence stuff at all etc.?

Oh, and don't make us wait that long again, will ya?