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LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY

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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 03:09 PM
Hi everyone

I'm a student from switzerland (23 years old).

I finsihed my bachelor degree and am now in my master degree (economic law, MLaw).
I would like to apply for an LLM program beginning september 2010 in London in INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS/COMMERCIAL LAW.

my problem: i dont fulfill the acedemic entry requirements (they want at least 5 out of 6, I only got 4.5 out of 6) for the universities I want to apply for:

LSE
KCL
QML
UCL
SOAS

I have done a lot of internships in bigger companies and law firms during my studies and have good letters of recommendation. also my grades have improved a little in my master studies.

I will start applying early (beginning october)

I am thinking of applying to universities with less good reputations like city University. (unfortunatly i have only read negative things about city)

Can someone give me some hints? Do I stand chances for the bigger universities or isn't it even worth sending the application? Will having finished a master degree before starting the LLm halp me in my application process?

Seeing the whole application process seems complicated I would realy appriciate your help...

thanks !





[Edited by 1986 on 18 Sep 2009]
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tnuchpiam

Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 58
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 05:43 PM
I think you can almost definitely rule out LSE and UCL -- and perhaps also KCL. You might nevertheless stand some chances at QMUL and SOAS.

I have also heard something bad about City, and it really surprised me that City ranks so low this year in the Times Good University Guide (which is to me more reasonable, and therefore more reliable!) -- far lower than the University of Surrey Law School which was established in 2007 with only few LLM programmes on offer (I begin to wonder now if those rankings are really trustworthy!).

I would try my luck at QMUL and SOAS first; then, if nothing happens, I would look for some other places -- perhaps Mancester and Glasgow -- which in some respects might serve as appropriate substitutes for London (big cities, financial centres, etc). Best of luck!
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 05:52 PM
thanks for your help.

any other universities in London you could recommend which have a level between UCL and city? (and offer a international business/commercial law program?)

any other opinions/help/suggestions?

thanks again for the support

[Edited by 1986 on 18 Sep 2009]
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tnuchpiam

Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 58
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 06:14 PM
In London, apart from the "Big Four" (LSE, UCL, KCL and QMUL), I wouldn't recommend any other place: Brunel doesn't seem to be any better than City (assuming the "bad" things we have heard about City have some elements of truth); Birkbeck is more suited to part-timers; and the "new universities" (Westminster, Kingston, etc) hardly have any special appeal to me (though some might be good). All this is only my personal view, of course.
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Kerfuffle

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 122
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 06:16 PM
To be honest, all the UoL colleges, with the possible exception of SOAS (I'm not sure how popular it is), get so many applications that they do not need to look below a 2.1 standard. That said, I've known people in the past to get into LSE and QMUL with a 2.2 (years of work experience/practice make up for the lower grades), so just try everywhere as you never know.

I wouldn't consider City when there are much better universities outside London (unless City has a particular speciality that you are keen on).

Also, if you're an international fee paying students, you'll automatically be more attractive to admissions.
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 18, 2009 06:23 PM
hey Kerfuffle

your last sentence sounds interesting :)
thanks for your advice, i will of course apply to all the "big" universities, as soon as admission offices open (october). I heard early applicants stand higher chances.

let's hope for the best...

thanks for your help!
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rollypolly

Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 12
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Sat Sep 19, 2009 09:55 AM
No harm in applying. I have heard of people getting into UCL despite not having great grades :)
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pedrinus

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 183
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:21 AM
Any of the London schools:

UCL
KCL
LSE
SOAS
QM

Are very good for LLM. You cannot go wrong with any of them. All offer an incredible choice of modules specialisms and good teaching, after all they are all colleges of the University of London
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Sun Sep 20, 2009 09:54 AM
and city/metropolitan/Brunel i shouldn't even apply?

mabe to be sure to get in at least somewhere...


thanks
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tnuchpiam

Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 58
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:43 AM
If you do not wish to consider any other place (apart from London), then City and Brunel should be your choices other than the five colleges/schools of the University of London. At least City and Brunel belong to the 1960s class and they could not be as "bad" as their current rankings might suggest. As I indicated in my previous posting, I now begin to doubt even the Times Good University Guide that places City far lower than a law school that was just established in 2007 (Surrey)!
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banker3

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 70
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:50 PM
I had friends who did their LLM at Westminster (corporate finance) and were extremely happy about it. Also, QMUL is easy to get into if you just put some effort in your application.

[Edited by banker3 on 20 Sep 2009]
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Mon Sep 21, 2009 06:13 PM
hey banker3,

of course QMUL would be perfect. hope to make it.
just got 4.5 out of 6 in my grades, and they request at least 5 out of 6

let's see....
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banker3

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 70
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:33 PM
I've had friends who had less than was required by QMUL but to managed to get so I do not think you would need to worry
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Tue Sep 22, 2009 08:29 AM
what do you guys mean by "put some effort in your application" ?

mention (and emphasise on) work experience?
add working certificates? (altough not asked for in application)

thanks again for everyones support!
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rollypolly

Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 12
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Tue Sep 22, 2009 09:27 AM
Write a really strong application and place emphasis on why you want to do that course at that university.
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pedrinus

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 183
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Tue Sep 22, 2009 09:28 AM
well here are a few points you can consider:

- know exactly why are you applying to the school and specialisms you want to study;

-write a good statement of purpose;

-good references;
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dash

Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 23
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:15 PM
Instead of City and Brunel, I'd go to Westminster. Last year I studied Corporate Finance, was quite successful with its program and academic staff. As for commercial law studies at Westminster, I had lots of friends who very so happy as well.
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john gale

Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 10
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:00 AM
If you are now doing a masters degree and you do well in it, this may make up for your lower grades at undergraduate level. You should apply with a strong personal statement which does address and explain (if you can) why you fall short at undergraduate level, but what you are doing to prove you really are qualified: your masters results, work experience, publications etc all count.

Iff you are going to come to the UK, then aim high: apply to UCL and the LSE. Places which have bad reputations do so for a good reason: you really don't want to waste your time.

Some posts keep saying that the London Colleges are all part of the University of London. You need to be careful: the intercollegiate LLM has ended. All colleges award their own degrees. If you study at King's, you now get a King's degree, not a London degree. Theses places: LSE, UCL, King's, QMUL and SOAS which were once in a co-operative arrangement are now in competition with one another. There is a clear ranking, with UCL and the LSE very much at the top.
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Energy_

Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 9
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 AM
If you don't have a first class, it will be hard to get into LSE. UCL is still an option. But you should apply to them anyway. You never know.

I would then rate Kings and SOAS as good institutions for LLM. Both have stellar international law research and their own specialisms.

QM is also good and coming up, but I would personally not attend school there.

Anything such as Brunel, Westminster and City are, in my view, not an option.

[Edited by Energy_ on 24 Sep 2009]
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PUCCA


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 360
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 04:53 AM
I think you should give it a try! not LSE because they are extremely strict as well as Kings,,,maybe UCL will notice more your internship and master grades,,i do think you should give it a try!!!

---
La vida es preciosa!
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1986

Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 21
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 07:59 AM
thanks to everyone!

one more question:

if send my application to LSE/KINGS/QMUL/UCL/... in end of october, is that still early enough? seeing early applications have higher chances!
unfortunatly i will not have the papers ready before then...
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PUCCA


Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 360
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 08:02 AM
end of october is still great dont worry,,,you are still applying early in my opinion,,

---
La vida es preciosa!
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john gale

Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 10
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:05 AM
On entry requirements:

Kings states that it requires 'at least upper second-class honours standard or an equivalent overseas qualification.'

UCL requires 'a first class honours or a good upper second-class honours qualifying law degree from a UK university or an overseas qualification of an equivalent standard.'

The LSE states that 'places are normally only offered to applicants with very good grades in their law studies (eg a First or very high 2:1 in the UK LLB), and who rank amongst the best graduates of their law schools. Applicants with a very good degree in another discipline together with very good grades in an appropriate postgraduate diploma in law (such as the UK's Graduate Diploma in Law) may also qualify for a place.'

The LSE is slightly harder to get into than UCL. But UCL is not easy: some applicants to UCL who have upper second class degrees are rejected because a 'good' upper second is required. UCL is really very much on the first/high upper second border. Kings is known to be easier to get into, and there are plenty of students there with upper/lower second borderline degrees, but it is a good place for an LLM and worth considering.
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VictoriaE

Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 3
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 01:57 PM
Hey guys, I attended the LLM in International Commercial Law last year so I may be able to help.
Firstly I am surprised from what I ve been reading as although I was accepted in other Universities (eg.Queen Mary) I preferred City and I didnt regret it at all. The personnel is highly qualified and the level of students as well. City has a max limit in all its courses, meaning 25 students per class (no way you find that in any other Uni in London) so profs really interact and care about students' opinion and thoughts. Moreover, the courses are very carefully designed to give knowledge that is useful not only on an academic level but also re our future professional career. For example, at the merger course we spent most of the time analysing market definition, effects etc , in general the "economics" of a merger which trust me when you start working you will understand that thats a merger all about. Most of all, City -as far as I know- is the only Uni that has a cartel course (big issue if interested in antitrust) and also the only Uni that cooperates with law firms and ensures summer internships for the best students as part of the LLM! Actually, despite the huge crisis last year I managed to get one of these internships in one of the biggest antitrust law firms in the world and I am now working as trainee there before my graduation!!! I fully recommend City!
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LLMgraduate

Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 3
LLM in LONDON LSE/KCL/QM/UCL/SOAS/CITY
Fri Sep 25, 2009 02:31 PM
I have studied at three of the universities: UCL, LSE and City. They are different becaouse of many reasons. If somebody is only interested in studying at best ranked universities I would suggest LSE, KCL or UCL. But with choosing LLM degree other qualities should count as well. As you know, LLM is for people who want to deepen knowledge and specialise in particular area of law, hence not only the name of the school should count but the academic staff, facilities, careers prospects. Comparing LLM at City University, I would put a couple of positive comments. Firstly, the number of people studying LLM is reasonably small which enable students to build better relations with classmates and teachers. Teachers are always approachabe and friendly, because it does make difference if the professor has to take care of 120 students or 12 students. Secondly, as I mentioned above, it is very important to know in which area of law somebody wants to specialise in before starting LLM. At City University there are several excellent professors in competition law. The City University is also known from very good maritime law programme. In comparison, KCL has very good competition law programme, LSE is known from financial law courses, QM has interesting intellectual property courses, UCL- environmental law. This is also crucial for somebody planning to study PhD after LLM on specific topic.
Thirdly, LLM applicants should think about securing some internships during or after LLM. City University provides several internships in law firms such as Thomas Cooper, Sildey Austin, Hawrey LLP, Cohen, and O'Molveny & Mayers. ( if you are a bit hardworking is possible to secure the internship, do not forget that if the are much less people studing, there is much less competition for the place :) Fourthly, location, atmosphere and socialiasing events should be taken into consideration in choosing particular LLM. City Law School organises around 10 law practice forums and seminars where you have opportunity to meet legal experts and senior practitioners. There is also plenty of possibilities to build good relation with classmates. There are drinks every week and several receptions during the year sponsored by the university. What is more, the university location is great in hear of London and the university provides modern facilities. I have been lucky to have studied LLM at City and do not think it is easier to get good grades than at LSE or UCL, as I studied at both of them as well and my grades did not vary. Lastly, I would like to mention about range of people studying on these universities. There are many American at LSE, Chineese at UCL, Indian at QM and lots of nationalities at City with number of Greeks.
I hope this comment will be helpful for people hesitating which course to choose, as this comment is based on couple of years of studing at London universities not only on biased opinions put by people who never studied there.
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